Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:This link should create some interesting discussions on various wine boards.
Rahsaan wrote:Why? Looks like pretty standard stuff that most wine board people would agree with.
Steve Slatcher
Wine guru
1047
Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:51 am
Manchester, England
Jenise
FLDG Dishwasher
42637
Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm
The Pacific Northest Westest
Thomas wrote:First commercial wines are cheap; then, there is such a thing as "top quality commercial wines." Discombolulated message again.
Ben Rotter
Ultra geek
295
Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:59 pm
Sydney, Australia (currently)
Ben Rotter wrote:I guess the difficulty with a manifesto (and I dislike that term for the same reasons Thomas does) is that many definitions and qualifications are necessary in order to be accurate and clear, and that means a lack of conciseness (which is generally not favoured for a "manifesto")
Rahsaan wrote:Ben Rotter wrote:I guess the difficulty with a manifesto (and I dislike that term for the same reasons Thomas does) is that many definitions and qualifications are necessary in order to be accurate and clear, and that means a lack of conciseness (which is generally not favoured for a "manifesto")
Except unlike other areas of life where the stakes might be higher, this is just wine so 'accuracy' and 'clarity' are not of the utmost importance.
Thomas wrote:Rahsaan wrote:Ben Rotter wrote:I guess the difficulty with a manifesto (and I dislike that term for the same reasons Thomas does) is that many definitions and qualifications are necessary in order to be accurate and clear, and that means a lack of conciseness (which is generally not favoured for a "manifesto")
Except unlike other areas of life where the stakes might be higher, this is just wine so 'accuracy' and 'clarity' are not of the utmost importance.
If so, Rahsaan, then why bother with a manifesto at all?
Rahsaan wrote:Well I've already said that I don't think there was that much to contribute to the wine geek world in the manifesto, but perhaps he has a broader audience.
Still, this is not a legal document where precise wording can have a major impact on people's lives. Obviously you want to be clear enough so that people understand you, but ambiguity or slippages don't quite have the same ramifications as in amendments to the Constitution. We can be wrong about wine and life goes on.
Sue Courtney wrote:I can't get to grips with the wording 'commercial wine'. Anything that is sold is commercial, isn't it?
Robin Garr wrote:Sue Courtney wrote:I can't get to grips with the wording 'commercial wine'. Anything that is sold is commercial, isn't it?
I'm just going with instinct and intuition here, Sue, but to me, "commercial wine" implies a wine that's made with primary focus on profit, as opposed to wine made with passion, assuming the money will follow. Maybe "industrial wine" might express a similar idea, but it's still fuzzy, as it's certainly possible to produce a commercially focused wine from a smallish winery.
Wine is no different from many another "commercial" product in the age of Milton Friedman and an intemperate focus on the quarterly balance sheet, by the way.
Thomas wrote:Whether made with passion or produced from a formula, wine is now and has always been a commodity product. Unless a producer has financial freedom, he has less freedom than consumers do when it comes to expressing passion, and if he can't convert his passion into a commercial success, he'll wind up with less money than when he began.
Robin Garr wrote:Thomas wrote:Whether made with passion or produced from a formula, wine is now and has always been a commodity product. Unless a producer has financial freedom, he has less freedom than consumers do when it comes to expressing passion, and if he can't convert his passion into a commercial success, he'll wind up with less money than when he began.
Your opinion is true, but sterile, cold and devoid of flavor.
Let me illustrate by example: Compare Steve Edmunds and Don Sebastiani. Don is probably raking in more riches, but I admire Steve and would much rather drink his wines.
Do I have to explain this any further?
Thomas wrote:Steve does great work, but I am certain that he will agree that passion and commercialism need to be in synch
Rahsaan wrote:Thomas wrote:Steve does great work, but I am certain that he will agree that passion and commercialism need to be in synch
Not only that, but there may be lots of passion in wineries that Robin considers 'commercial'. And not only passion for commercialism, but passion for 'quality'. It just so happens that their definition of quality differs from Robin's.
In addition, I'm sure there is more than one winemaker who we all admire who has felt more than one lull in his/her passion.
When it comes down to it, these definitions can be very tricky.
Thomas wrote:To further your point: the Gallo family always had a passion for quality as well as for commercialism.
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