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Otto

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Sports and Wine

by Otto » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:12 pm

I've noticed a very strange thing. The more I do sports the less I can handle wine. I noticed it today the last time when I shared a bottle with a friend with a late lunch after having jogged for 5,5km in the morning. The wine seemed to go to my head much much faster than when I don't do sports. Though I drank copious water after jogging, I guess it might have something to do with being slightly dehydrated anyway? And this is about half my usual jog :!:

But why is it that even on days that I don't go jogging I can handle less alcohol than before? When I used to do sports rather casually (3-4 days a week, real light, e.g. 3km jog) I used to be able to drink about ½ a bottle until I felt intoxicated. Now that I am jogging 40-50km a week, the limit is two glasses, 1/3 of a bottle. Is there some physiological reason for this?

Otto
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Rahsaan » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:24 pm

I don't know, I never conducted rigorous studies of how much I exercise and how much I can drink.

But, I generally feel better when I exercise and am less likely to feel sluggish the next day if I drank too much at night. So I guess that observation runs counter to yours.

Will see what the Actual Medical Folks have to say..
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Hoke » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:59 pm

Is there some physiological reason for this?

Er, um...have you considered age? :D

Seriously though, after thinking about this for a bit, I figured there might be three things at work:

1. Age. You're not as young as you used to be, guy.

2. Dehydration: I think that does play into it. You dehydrate when you exercise, and drinking wine dehydrates you as well.

3. If you drink wine immediately after vigorous exercise, there might be a synergistic effect: exercise oxygenates the body, forces open the capillaries, etc. If you drink wine in that condition, it could be "going to your head" faster than it normally does because you've sped up your circulatory system.

Of course, I know nothing whatsoever about physiological effects of alcohol on the body in conjunction with vigorous exercise. That would require me to vigorously exercise. And, as my wife and doctor tell me on every possible occasion, I don't do that. Exercise, I mean. The wine part I've got down.
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Bob Ross » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:05 pm

Otto, I have the same experience. My goal is to exercise 42 Cooper points a week -- that's an exercise syste2m that gives you a number of points based on difficulty and duration. I like the system because you can convert many different sports or activities into numbers.

A fifteen minute walk at 4.0 mph is one point, while 22 minutes on my climber at the 20/10 settings gives me two points. A ten hour hike at 2 mph, 1000 feet gain in elevation gives me 12 or so.

I like the hard/easy routine most days, with a 10-12 point day on the weekend.

I notice that after a 12 point day, I simply can't drink wine -- a beer is all I can handle. The rest of the week I alternate between 2 and 8 point days, and I find I can drink three glasses on two point days, one is enough on an 8 point day.

Never understood why, but the amount of exercise definitely affects my ability to handle the alcohol. The more exercise, the less alcohol I can tolerate.

Regards, Bob
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Re: Sports and Wine

by David Lole » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:29 am

Simple, Otto, wine and alcohol just don't mix. So the way I see it, exercise more, drink less or exercise less, drink more. Although I've had to lose weight, improve my diet etc to reduce the onset of diabetes and cardio/vascular disease, I'm a bit like Hoke. Sorry I can't be of any more help on this one. :wink:
Cheers,

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Re: Sports and Wine

by Otto » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:32 am

Hoke wrote:Is there some physiological reason for this?

Er, um...have you considered age? :D

Seriously though, after thinking about this for a bit, I figured there might be three things at work:

1. Age. You're not as young as you used to be, guy.


Right. So at the ripe old age of 23 I'm starting to show my age? Come on! But seriously, thanks for all the info.

BTW, Rahsaan, I've never payed attention to it, but you are right: I don't feel sluggish after over imbibing if I do lots of sports. But I still get drunk much faster and on a much smaller amount! Very odd....

Bob Ross, that's a funny system! Parker points of sports? I don't do points. I just run for a certain amount of km and monitor that pulse doesn't go too high while doing so. Simple and much more fun than counting points, IMO.

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Re: Sports and Wine

by Bruce K » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:38 am

Otto,

For what it's worth, I play two hours of full-court basketball every Tuesday night. Afterwards, I eat a late dinner and usually have a glass of wine with it. I do make a point of drinking lots of water during and after playing to avoid dehydration, but I still find the alcohol going to my head more quickly and so I limit my intake to one modest-sized glass. So I guess that's consistent with your experience.

As for your observations on days when you don't exercise, I'm with Hoke -- you're not getting any younger (even if you are less than half my age).
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Bob Ross » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:41 am

"Bob Ross, that's a funny system! Parker points of sports? I don't do points. I just run for a certain amount of km and monitor that pulse doesn't go too high while doing so. Simple and much more fun than counting points, IMO."

Actually, your system is very much like Cooper's, Otto. He's been a runner for many years, and his studies are based in part on the great Finnish runners. If all you do is run, then counting clicks and monitoring pulse rate is fine -- I assume you set a goal per day or per week or whatever.

I used to run, but found too many problems, especially running in the dark. Yesterday, for example, I hiked 50 minutes, walked 20, and climbed on the EFX for 22, or 6 points. I'll start swimming in a couple of weeks which is a different type of cardio exercise. I'm also learning to dance for our 60/70 birthday party in the winter. The Cooper system just makes it easy to figure out when enough is enough for cardio health with a hodge podge of different exercises.

My pulse rate problem is the opposite of yours -- I have trouble getting it high enough -- always have. My resting rate is 54-56 -- to get above 130 takes tremendous effort.

In any event, the Cooper system is lots of fun, unless, of course, it's Saturday night and I'm ten points short for the week and no hiking is possible on Sunday. I get damn sick of that climber after an hour. :-(

Regards, Bob
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Sam Platt » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:46 am

Otto wrote:The wine seemed to go to my head much much faster than when I don't do sports.


Otto,

I am a runner, and while I can't explain the phenomenon I can vouche for the effect. I notice that alcohol "goes to my head" more quickly when I am training at more than 50 Km per week. Below that threshold I don't notice much of an impact. The effect is particularly pronounced if I drink within 6 to 8 hours of completing a single run in excess of 20 Km; one glass of wine, or one beer and I feel a pronounced effect. I always attributed it generically to "metabolism", but I have no idea what is taking place physiologically.
Sam

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Re: Sports and Wine

by Howie Hart » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:02 pm

Bob Ross wrote:My goal is to exercise 42 Cooper points a week -- that's an exercise syste2m that gives you a number of points based on difficulty and duration. I like the system because you can convert many different sports or activities into numbers.


I had never heard of this before, and a Google search came up with:
http://www.cooperaerobics.com/radio/BBA ... ystem.aspx
That'a neat - like WeightWatchers only the points are measuring the amount of exercise instead of calories. I need to set up an exercise routine. Bob - thanks for posting.
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Bob Ross » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:06 pm

I bought a paperback copy of his first book many years ago, and still use it, Howie. His system has improved over the years -- you can get fit from a cardio point of view with less work now than in the old days. Apparently he's got much more data now.

And, duration seems to be the key -- I like the long, long hikes which with the ups and downs and uncertain footing in the eastern forests keep my heart rate above 130 99% of the time.

It's a very easy system to learn -- 15 minutes of walking, one point, for example. 5 points for an hour; eight hours a week. I'm out of there. :-)

Regards, Bob
Last edited by Bob Ross on Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Bob Cohen » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:34 pm

Bob,

Thanks for bringing that up. I'vd bookmarked the site and I'll take more of a look at it later. I like that he's got detailed - and apparently realistic - figures for outdoor cycling, which is my favorite sport.
--Bob
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Bob Ross » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:01 pm

Thanks for the judgment on cycling, Bob. I have a ten speed and do a small amount of cycling. I've never known how realistic Cooper's numbers were from that point of view.

There are many nice trails in this area for biking, and a fair number of fairly quiet streets, so it might be fun to mix in more cycling in my overall exercise plan.

Regards, Bob
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Re: Sports and Wine

by David M. Bueker » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:18 pm

Ok, so it looks like I average about 65-70 points a week. What does that mean? I would love to see an explanation. Was there one on the site?
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Bob Ross » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:31 pm

It means you are in damn good shape, David. Athlete status. The 30 points a week is supposed to be for normal folks who want to be in good cardiovascular shape.

Athletes will score much, much higher. I haven't looked at the website in and can't be more specific. But they have data on thousands of people over the years, and I'm sure there is information available on your type/activity level available through his institute, if not online.

It's become a major source of research in the area of physical fitness over the years.

I got up to 80 points a week several years ago when I tried for Mount Shasta -- and over a hundred on a Long Trail hike.

But that's not my normal world, especially at this age.

Regards, Bob
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Paul Winalski » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:57 pm

A possible explanation for the phenomenon:

Strenuous exercise causes the muscle tissue to burn glucose and to produce lactic acid (i.e., fermentation). The lactic acid is transported to the liver, where it is built back up into glucose that then travels back to the exercising muscle. In completely aerobic exercise, the liver rebuilds the glucose as fast as the lactate is produced. In anaerobic exercise, lactate is produced faster than it's rebuilt to glucose, and once the exercise is over the liver plays catch-up for a while (this is the so-called "oxygen debt").

While the liver's actively doing all this, hepatic portal circulation likely is greater than usual. Since alcohol absorbed in the gut goes through the portal system to get to the general circulation (and hence the brain), perhaps the extra portal circulation explains why alcohol would reach the brain faster than usual.

This is all speculation on my part.

-Paul W.
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Sam Platt » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:01 pm

Paul,

Your explanation certainly has my vote. Now, blood alcohol concentration should be the same per volume of alcohol consume either with, or without exercise correct? Or would a more rapid, short term spike in BAC be expected post exercise?
Sam

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Re: Sports and Wine

by Otto » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:21 pm

My pulse rate problem is the opposite of yours -- I have trouble getting it high enough -- always have. My resting rate is 54-56 -- to get above 130 takes tremendous effort.


That's odd - or maybe I am odd. My resting pulse is 48 (up from 42 when I was active in competitive swimming) but I can easily get my pulse to 210 when swimming and 170 when jogging. When doing long distance jogging at a moderate pace it usually goes up to 150.

You know what I really find annoying? Taking your pointy system, I'm doing at least 100 a week, usually closer to 120, but the little belly that I've developed (by drinking too much, LOL!!) isn't shrinking. :cry:
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Paul Winalski » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:36 pm

Sam Platt wrote:Paul,

Your explanation certainly has my vote. Now, blood alcohol concentration should be the same per volume of alcohol consume either with, or without exercise correct? Or would a more rapid, short term spike in BAC be expected post exercise?


I'm postulating that there's a more rapid, short term spike when alcohol is consumed post-exercise vs. without exercise. That's why the alcohol seems to "go right to your head" after exercise but not if consumed without prior exercise.

-Paul W.
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Re: Sports and Wine

by James Roscoe » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:07 pm

You people work way to hard. Cut it out there are people drinking wine here.
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Re: Sports and Wine

by Bob Ross » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:38 am

"That's odd - or maybe I am odd. My resting pulse is 48 (up from 42 when I was active in competitive swimming) but I can easily get my pulse to 210 when swimming and 170 when jogging. When doing long distance jogging at a moderate pace it usually goes up to 150."

Not at all odd, Otto. At your age and in the wonderful physical condition you have to be in, my numbers just don't compare. 20 years ago when I would run the stress tests to exhaustion, I couldn't get above 170 or so, and my resting rate was 46 to 48.

I never got interested 25 years before that, but I do remember they considered making me 4F when I was 24 because my heart rate was "too low". Seemed very odd since I could run for hours at a good pace. Sports physiology has come a very long way since those days, and some of the leading experts are in Finland.

The Cooper numbers are really for people who are normally sedentary, and hardly apply to people in your physical condition.

I am interested in the effect of alcohol you are reporting, though. I wonder if Paul's analysis really fits someone who is in the peak physical condition you enjoy (apart from that little tummy business). :-)

Regards, Bob

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