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*PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Fri May 18, 2007 6:35 pm

Just got the latest Premier Cru e-mail:

2005 Roumier Village Chambolle - $99.99

Now, some of this is Premier Cru, who used to be a good retailer for great wines at moderate prices (it's been a while since weekend special pricing meant anything), but - come on - what is going on here? I know this is a topic that has been beat to death, but I'm flabbergasted.

I've traded and sold a bunch of my wines over the past year to buy or get new wines, simply because I can't imagine the prices that some of these things are going for at the moment. I keep waiting for prices to hit the roof, but it aint happening.

1996 Salon for $225, 2003 Chave for $500+, 2005 Burgs...

I don't know about you guys, but I'm backfilling like crazy because the writing is on the wall for me.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by James Roscoe » Fri May 18, 2007 8:27 pm

Are you saying the middle class is F####d on the premier stuff? Or are you a little less crass than I am? I was hoping to win the lottery so it wouldn't matter. Of course I have to play to win. Then there are those damn priorities, like family and stuff.... :?
.....we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. A. Lincoln
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Fri May 18, 2007 8:45 pm

No, the middle class is effed on the village stuff.

We've been effed on the premier stuff for a while.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Manuel Camblor » Fri May 18, 2007 9:54 pm

James Roscoe wrote:Are you saying the middle class is F####d on the premier stuff? Or are you a little less crass than I am? I was hoping to win the lottery so it wouldn't matter. Of course I have to play to win. Then there are those damn priorities, like family and stuff.... :?


Nope, the middle class is fucked on plain Bourgogne... Ironic where the "democratization of wine" so loudly touted by the press has led. Which is why I drink Beaujolais and Langhe Nebbiolo. Hell, even my beloved old Tondonias are now selling in the hundreds...

One upside: Bordeaux these days can get as expensive as it damn well wants. It's pretty much all Parkerista crap, anyway.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Fri May 18, 2007 10:02 pm

I saw the latest vintage of Cubillo the other day for like $25+

Huh?
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Manuel Camblor » Fri May 18, 2007 10:07 pm

Cubillo is the one wine from LdH I don't buy. Never quite liked it.

Like I said...
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Dale Williams » Fri May 18, 2007 10:21 pm

worse part is that's the best offer on the village Chambolle I've seen.
And the prices on the MSD 1er Bussieres are even worse.
Both used to be sub-$40, not long ago.
There's always more wine.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Fri May 18, 2007 10:27 pm

Manuel Camblor wrote:Cubillo is the one wine from LdH I don't buy. Never quite liked it.

Like I said...


Yeah, but when it used to sell for $11-$12 a few years back, it's pretty crazy.

True enough on the Tondonia and Bosconia, but even the lesser bottles are getting nutty.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Fri May 18, 2007 10:29 pm

Dale Williams wrote:worse part is that's the best offer on the village Chambolle I've seen.
And the prices on the MSD 1er Bussieres are even worse.
Both used to be sub-$40, not long ago.
There's always more wine.


$100 for a village Chambolle?

I like the Roumier C-M, but $55 and under.

It's a mad mad world.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by James Roscoe » Fri May 18, 2007 11:18 pm

So the word is we're all sheis and we better get used to it? Even Beaujolais has started to creep up in price along with the Loire valley. I guess those Sandinista looking guys in the south of France will ruin that area too. Such is life.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Fri May 18, 2007 11:34 pm

James Roscoe wrote:Such is life.


Yeah, but I'm 27 with less than 200 bottles in the cellar... it's going to be a long painful road of wine buying for me over the next 50 years.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by James Roscoe » Fri May 18, 2007 11:38 pm

JoePerry wrote:
James Roscoe wrote:Such is life.


Yeah, but I'm 27 with less than 200 bottles in the cellar... it's going to be a long painful road of wine buying for me over the next 50 years.

Family or wine? Damn tough choices... I feel your pain Joe. Good luck! fortunately at 47 I have less years to worry about. Unfortunately my cellar is not as well stocked.
.....we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. A. Lincoln
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Fri May 18, 2007 11:53 pm

I'm hoping for an Omega Man scenario where it's just me, a bunch of beatnik zombies, and all the wine cellars in the world for my choosing. :D
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by James Roscoe » Sat May 19, 2007 12:15 am

JoePerry wrote:I'm hoping for an Omega Man scenario where it's just me, a bunch of beatnik zombies, and all the wine cellars in the world for my choosing. :D


Heck, we could feed Hoke some grissily steak and sneak down to his cellar while he's choking. He'll never miss a few bottles and with any luck he'll be dead and we can split the entire cellar! :mrgreen:
.....we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. A. Lincoln
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Rod Miller » Sat May 19, 2007 1:21 am

In case you didn't notice the dollAR IS weak. Another reason to fill your cellar with us wines. Bargins can be found with new wineries or shops going out of busines.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Rahsaan » Sat May 19, 2007 5:55 am

Rod Miller wrote:Bargins can be found with shops going out of busines.


Interesting strategy although perhaps not a consistent source.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Covert » Sat May 19, 2007 7:26 am

James Roscoe wrote:Family or wine? Damn tough choices.


You know, it's funny, I don't think most people in the States make a choice. Kids arrive pretty much automatically, and when they do, they change the biochemistry of the producers to love and sacrifice for them. In my wife's and my case, and cases of others with whom I have discussed it, the desire to have a family disappears completely after making a conscious decision not to contribute to the world's population, much like a skin itch quits if you make a decision not to scratch it. You don't miss children at all. I believe the desire to have children is social and not biological, but it becomes biological, and irreversible, as soon as the first child is produced.

When you make a run-of-the-mill professional income, and double, when there are no kids to stay home for, you live pretty much live like a millionaire, even before you accumulate seven figures, which happens pretty much automatically without children, if you are smart enough to invest even a small portion of your income. It seems to me, and I know I am in a minority in America, that if one had the foresight, or precocious hindsight, to make a conscious choice, he would opt for carpets that never need replacement (animals in the house are another issue).

I understand that the people in France are choosing, more than Americans do, not to have children. It would be interesting to study the social differences, since I would have to conclude that there are not significant biological differences between these populations.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Sam Platt » Sat May 19, 2007 12:16 pm

I ran across the 2005 Domaine Rossignol-Trapet Gevrey-Chambertin at a local store for almost $48/bottle. That's more than twice what I paid for the '03 vintage. I simply can't continue to buy Burgs at those prices. It seems that people are being chased out of the market. I am finding much better QPR in the low end Bordeaux.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Sat May 19, 2007 12:16 pm

Rod Miller wrote:In case you didn't notice the dollAR IS weak. Another reason to fill your cellar with us wines. Bargins can be found with new wineries or shops going out of busines.


I'm sure there are more American wineries that I truly like (not just tolerate) then ESJ, Kalin, Gloria Ferrer and Tablas Creek. It would cost 3 or 4 times as much to sift through the rubble in order to find them, however.

Besides, the weak dollar hasn't had effect on Sherry, Vinho Verde or an number of other wines. While it plays a part, it is hardly the real cause for the increases.

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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by JoePerry » Sat May 19, 2007 12:22 pm

Covert, I'm not sure I agree with your portrayal of the situation. Some people want kids, some people don’t. I don't judge on either account. There's a lot of folks out there whose greatest joy is their children. Besides, if a couple has 1 or 2 kids, they aren't adding to the population, they're lowering or maintaining it (and, yes, I do think there should be tax implications for the number of kids people have).

Moreover, the answer to being skewered by absurd wine prices shouldn't be "well, don't have kids!"

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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by MtBakerDave » Sat May 19, 2007 12:54 pm

Sam Platt wrote:I ran across the 2005 Domaine Rossignol-Trapet Gevrey-Chambertin at a local store for almost $48/bottle. That's more than twice what I paid for the '03 vintage. I simply can't continue to buy Burgs at those prices. It seems that people are being chased out of the market. I am finding much better QPR in the low end Bordeaux.


I've been stocking up on '04 Burgundy (and a fwe '01s and '02s that I've been able to still find in the market.) I'm seeing village cru and a few 1ers in the $40 to $55 range in the '04 vintage. Once those are gone I plan to sit it out for a year or two. I'm hoping that eventually the dollar will recover a little and the tulip frenzy will collapse. There's so much wine coming out of Bordeaux that I expect to always find decent stuff for a reasonable price, given that I don't care about the name on the bottle.

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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Redwinger » Sat May 19, 2007 1:01 pm

JoePerry wrote:(and, yes, I do think there should be tax implications for the number of kids people have).

Joe,
There are tax implications already built into the U.S Tax code. The more kids you have, the less you pay.
I've always thought something along the lines of first two kids you get a full deduction. Third kid you get 0.5 deduction. The fourth kid and you lose 1.0 deductions and 5 or more kids you get zero deductions including parental deductions. Somehow I don't think this would gain much favor in places like Utah.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Dan Donahue » Sat May 19, 2007 1:46 pm

It isn't just the dollar versus the euro. I just got an offer for the '05 Sea Smoke Botella at $70. I suppose I'll find it for less if I want, but the '02 version was selling on the shelves for $26.

This will pass. And in the mean time I'm having a lot of fun exploring the many non-mainstream Italian wines. Still many bargains to be had.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

by Rahsaan » Sat May 19, 2007 1:53 pm

Dan Donahue wrote:It isn't just the dollar versus the euro. I just got an offer for the '05 Sea Smoke Botella at $70. I suppose I'll find it for less if I want, but the '02 version was selling on the shelves for $26.


That's called Points, isn't it.

I'm having a lot of fun exploring the many non-mainstream Italian wines. Still many bargains to be had.


For the time being. Will see.
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