The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.
User avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

10557

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

WTN: Georgia, Austria, Portugal, Germany reds

by Dale Williams » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:45 pm

Local non-serious group met Friday on Dave’s patio, with its lovely view of the Hudson, the Palisades, and the sunset. A nice spread of charcuterie, cheeses, and dips.

2021 Attems Pinot Grigio Ramato
Rose PG?!?! Pale, coppery, moderate acids with strawberries and an unusual buttery note. B-

The theme was (blind) reds from Europe but not France, Italy, or Spain.
Light bodied, cherries, herbs, a little bitter note. I guessed Greece. Took a while to get to Georgia, especially as some question as to whether Georgia is Europe! 2019 Kapistoni Danakharuli. B

Fruity, forward, low tannin, low acid, I guessed Portugal. Friendly and easy in a juicy style
2018 Quinta de La Rosa B

Double-decanted in advance (and partially spilled as I made a U-ey to park!, luckily nothing got in car). Very floral, raspberry and wild berry leaves,. Bright. Fred got country, Dave region, and Fred producer. 2018 Enderle and Moll Liaison Pinot Noir B+/B

Fairly full,.expressive dark fruit, I was thinking Portugal again and scoffed when someone said PN. Oops.2019 Anton Bauer Wagram Pinot Noir B/B-

Hot wine, hot wine. I guessed Portugal. Much bigger, heavier, than the La Rosa.2017 Dos Lusiadas Eleivera (Douro) C+

Weedy, low acid but with a sharp profile, I was bewildered and went with Croatia. Nope.
2017 Prieler St Laurent C+

Fresh acids, bright cherries, got country but thought Zweigelt, and had no clue it was same wine as the 2019. 2018 Anton Bauer Wagram Pinot Noir B

Good night, good walk home (no bears), good friends.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

32762

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: Georgia, Austria, Portugal, Germany reds

by David M. Bueker » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:56 am

I keep trying the Enderle & Moll wines, and keep being left with a "that's it?" impression. To me it seems all teh hype is generated by one guy.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

7266

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:01 pm

Yup..

by TomHill » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:29 am

Yup, Dale on the Ramato. Pinot Gris/PinotGrigio, like GWT, takes on a slight pinkish hue when it gets ripe. If you make the wine as a skin-contact White, A Ramato, the wine takes on this pinkish hue. Sometimes more of a light red.
Ramato is the term they use in Friuli/Slovenia/Croatia/Georgia. Sometimes in the US as well.
Tom
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

8864

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

Chapel Hill, NC

Re: WTN: Georgia, Austria, Portugal, Germany reds

by Rahsaan » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:57 am

David M. Bueker wrote:I keep trying the Enderle & Moll wines, and keep being left with a "that's it?" impression. To me it seems all teh hype is generated by one guy.


Who is the one guy? LF? I would imagine there are a few more fans in the US! And LF is certainly not responsible for their fame in Germany, where they are a big name (in certain crowds).

I think a big part of the fame comes from being an early mover in the category of natural spatburgunder. Lots of other producers have emerged since then, but maybe not all getting exported to the US, so maybe that's why E&M still has an outsized fame in the US.

As far as the evaluation 'that's it' - that is how I feel about E&M and all the very natural-tasting natural wines. Delicious fruit juice but nothing to chase or spend a lot of money on. And, I'm very wary about tasting them far from their origins. A big selling point is the natural energy, and that declines rapidly when exported.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

32762

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: Georgia, Austria, Portugal, Germany reds

by David M. Bueker » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:46 am

Yeah, LF.

Whenever I drink an E&M I sort of feel like I am having a wine version of Kool-Aid, which is fun for about half a glass. I then get very bored.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

8864

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

Chapel Hill, NC

Re: WTN: Georgia, Austria, Portugal, Germany reds

by Rahsaan » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:34 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Whenever I drink an E&M I sort of feel like I am having a wine version of Kool-Aid, which is fun for about half a glass. I then get very bored.


Including the Bundsandstein and the Muschelkalk? Those have enough depth and layers to interest me throughout the meal/evening. Maybe not really the equivalent of a good 1er cru Burgundy (which I can imagine is what LF compares them to). But a very good village wine. Whereas Liaison strikes me as wine bar Kool-Aid glug juice, and due to my lifestyle, I rarely need that.
User avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

10557

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: WTN: Georgia, Austria, Portugal, Germany reds

by Dale Williams » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:00 pm

I like the E&M wines more than you guys, but am not trying to compare to Burgundy. I paid $22.xx for the Liaison, and $44 for the Bundsandstein. I'm not going to stock up at those prices, but find an interesting contrast to the Burgs (and limited US PN) I buy.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

8864

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

Chapel Hill, NC

Re: WTN: Georgia, Austria, Portugal, Germany reds

by Rahsaan » Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:11 pm

Dale Williams wrote:I like the E&M wines more than you guys, but am not trying to compare to Burgundy. I paid $22.xx for the Liaison, and $44 for the Bundsandstein. I'm not going to stock up at those prices, but find an interesting contrast to the Burgs (and limited US PN) I buy.


I also like them, and don't compare them to Burgundy. But that's mainly because I drink them in Germany, where other spatburgunder feels like the only relevant comparison. In the US, I am open to many other options, so it's inevitable to debate the value of different choices. But those seem like fair prices for the enjoyment they give me.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

32762

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: Georgia, Austria, Portugal, Germany reds

by David M. Bueker » Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:48 pm

My value proposition has historically been stacked up against high quality Bourgogne. It used to be Mugneret-Gibourg (remember way back when it was $25), but that ship sailed in about 2014 (and as of 2020 I was zeroed out on any allocations). More recently it has been Hudelot-Noellat, but the 2020 has now hit $40, which I suppose broadens the field in terms of what is price competitive.

Maybe I will try the Bundsandstein at some point.
Decisions are made by those who show up

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign