Rumble On - more musings about wine

[David M. Bueker]

I've been stewing on a few things lately, and thought I should grab the keyboard by the horns & throw the topics out there for general consumption. Feel free to throw gasoline and a match on anything here.

Value wine: There's so much value wine out there I cannot keep track of what I want to try next. Every time I think I am all set for "house wines" or "party wines" or "non-wine geek company wines" or "Tuesday night wines" there' something else out there that is worth exploring. Then it gets its teeth into me and I end up with more wine in the cellar than a human can drink. Don't get me wrong, I could just cut up the credit card, and I'll enjoy it all, but there's some precious bottles down in the cellar that need attention while I drink the latest delicious Cotes du Rhone or Riesling QbA.

Sauvignon Blanc: I hate Sauvignon Blanc...I think. Lately a couple of bottles at totally different ends of the price sprectrum have made me re-think my long-standing bias. One was from F.X. Pichler of Austria, and the other from Kunde in California. The Pichler was worthy of serious contemplation while being fun. The Kunde was easy, refreshing, and while not a wine for contemplation (they do not all have to be that way), it was a good value (oh damn...another one). Perhaps I should venture back into Sauvignon & see if my overall perceptions of the grape can be altered.

Wine "rags": I used to subscribe to everything. I thought I needed to read everything out there and know what was going on in minute detail. Comparative assessments (pitting one critic against the other) were meaningful to me. Well three major publications have quit coming to my mailbox in the last year, and I don't miss any of them. I still get two, neither of which I will drop because I am friends with and have great respect for one of the writers, but they don't really mean anything to me anymore, except as something to look at while I am on a plane.

Tough year: Too many fine winemakers have left us recently. Kracher, Salomon and Dagueneau, not to mention the legendary Robert Mondavi have all left us. Sad.

Well such an outrageous email deserves a suitably caustic response... erm... actually I'm in full agreement on each of the points.

1) I firmly believe that critical opinion over-inflates the price of wines (and I'm not referring to a particular critical here, more the weight of critical opinion) - meaning the many good wines that aren't in the uber-elite of the wine world, can offer stunning value.

2) Much as it's easy and sometimes fun to knock certain grapes (Pinotage, Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay, ...) there's always someone out there (and often quite a few) who is prepared to buck the fashion trend and make something they feel they can be proud of and take no greater pleasure than destroying embedded perceptions or prejudices.

3) I'm over wine mags, have been for a while. There are some good wine books out there, that offer real long-term value.

4) Nothing more to add.

regards

Ian

[David M. Bueker]

Can't a guy get a little flame war going around here?

[James Roscoe]

There is no value in wine at all. It's all overpriced crap. Don't you read Therapy anymore? (Does Therapy still exist?)

SB is the greatest grape in the world! It makes all kinds of versatile wines.

The Wine Spectator RULES!!! I read it and implicitly trust everything it says. If only they would fire that moron Matt Kraemer.

Let the dead bury the dead!

Does that help?

Value wine: There's so much value wine out there I cannot keep track of what I want to try next.

Okay, just for the sake of disagreement I will agree with you... EXCEPT for domestic Pinot Noir. I have not found one that I would consider a good value wine for some time. Even old standbys like Argyle are becoming over priced in my opinion. I find some value among Bourgogne Pinots, but nothing domestically. How's that for a flame?

OK, I'll light a match.

Ummm.

There are too many Sauv Blancs I'm not wild about. Must mean there's some I like lots. Oops, I'm agreeing with you - a little.

Merry Edwards does a nice 'un in the rich and tangy style; we love it with roast chicken stuffed with oranges, lemons, and PSR&T. Brander's steely-fingered "Au Naturel" frequently hits the spot for me, in a completely different way; we've adopted it for martini hour (while cooking dinner). Even the cheap Mason SB is an easy drinker with more emphasis on purer ripe fruit aromas than the other two. I used to enjoy Dave Stare's better bottlings from DCV but I stopped seeing them in the marketplace here; but wow, talk about wildly intense grassy stuff - yum.

And Sauternes is a whole different wonderful animal.

So there. Try one of these. Maybe you will like one.

[David M. Bueker]

Sam - try the Villages Cuvee from St. Innocent. It's delicious & not expensive.

Jeff - I love Sauternes! Well I really love Barsac, but Sauternes will do in a pinch.

With the exception of the very top of the market--classified growth Bordeaux, Grand Cru Bourgogne, cult Cali Cabs--it's a buyer's market. There is no reason to bellyache. There is an ocean of good wine to choose from. All these arguments have been rehearsed here ad infinitum. Tonight I had a Campo de Borja red that cost $7, and it was just fine with the usual vegetable/meat pasta dish. Yeah, I'd like to have enjoyed a fine Piemontese red instead, but the price was unreasonable. So I did the reasonable thing, and things worked out reasonably well. Are you detecting a pattern yet?

Can't a guy get a little flame war going around here?

You want a flame war: nice to see that you are growing up, which is what your post meant to me

I just got back from a day in Alexander Valley, Dry Creek Valley, and Russian River Valley.
I went a bit soon because I have a trip coming up, so I only have (er, had) about 3 cases of space in my cellar.

Now I have 3 cases + 10 bottles that have to be stashed.

I wrote down about 10 places that I'd like to visit. I forgot one old friend (Yoakim Bridge) and found a new one (Hawkes). I only stopped at 6 places, leaving 6 off the list!

My name is John (I think) and I have a broplem. <g>

So much neat wine and so little time!!! BTW, I spent an hour jawing at Yoakim Bridge and nobody else came in. Wednesdays have their advantages.

John

At the risk of sounding like a rich snob (which I am not, at least not rich), I am getting increasingly irritated by the word "value". At this point in my life, life just seems too short to drink wine because it's a good deal. I am sure I will continue to drink value wine at people's homes, at restaurants, or as an unintended consequence of curiosity, but I have lost interest in cost/benefit for my sake (but won't cast pearls before swine in a party situation). Maybe this is a function of being 53: just as conventional investment advice is "stocks for the younger and bonds for the older," value wine might be sensible, say, in Ryan's situation, with the whole arc of his adult life ahead of him, but not in mine. I know your first point was more about abundance than value, but it triggered this line of thinking.

I love sauvignon blanc, without expecting the heights obtainable from chardonnay, riesling or chenin blanc. I've had many a delicious Sancerre and kiwi sauvignon, but the function is very specific and summery, perhaps like rosé: chilled, bone-dry, refreshing, minerally or tropical, fun wine. Do you like other bone dry white wines? Or is your passion for riesling an indication of some bias for sweetness?

I subscribe to nothing printed (save the trees so producers can make chips ), only online to Burghound, WA and WS for, it seems, ever diminishing consultation...

[David M. Bueker]

Do you like other bone dry white wines? Or is your passion for riesling an indication of some bias for sweetness?

I like bone dry Riesling!

I do enjoy other dry whites. Dry Chenin comes to mind as another favorite. What's interesting is that my two favorite white wine grapes, Riesling & Chenin Blanc, are both successfully used for dry and sweet wines. Certainly other grapes can make that same claim, but not to the same degree.

Value wine - being a home wine maker, I generally don't buy wines less than $20, unless I'm visiting a winery.
SB - I've posted on this before - I just don't get the grape - it does nothing for me. I've had many hybrids I've liked better.
Rags - I used to read them in the waiting room at the doctor's office, but since he retired, I go to the VA clinic for my medical needs. The only magazines there are "American Legion" and "Field and Stream".

Being senior citizens we look for values all the time.

I like SB more than she does. Those from SA seem to do more for us than other regions, tho we do like some from here and there on occasion.

W&S still comes here, as does Dan Berger's newsletter via email.

Cheers, Carl

Do you like other bone dry white wines? Or is your passion for riesling an indication of some bias for sweetness?

I like bone dry Riesling!

I do enjoy other dry whites. Dry Chenin comes to mind as another favorite. What's interesting is that my two favorite white wine grapes, Riesling & Chenin Blanc, are both successfully used for dry and sweet wines. Certainly other grapes can make that same claim, but not to the same degree.

Well, sauv banc and semillon do dry and sweet, though as a SB disliker you may say that's the semillon.

Had a bottle of a locally made white last night - and 17% added semillon made such a huge difference to the whole character of the wine. Do you like white Bordeaux style wines despite the SB content?

The word "value" is not one I could spread around up here. I am told in a store that such and such Jumilla Monastrell is good value for say $15. Sure if one is just a casual wine-drinker but I think most of us here have higher quality expectations (wink).
When one is paying the high prices ($25/30) that are common for most entry level type wines, I do not think of the word "value" unless it has been discounted in the bin end basket...and that is a rare moment in AB-land!

Value wine: I agree there are plenty of value wines out there that are quite interesting. Personally, I love discovering a $10 wine that I adore. My budget is limited, and if I can find 5 $10 wines I like as much as 99% of $20 wines, and buy 2 bottles of each, I can buy a nice $100 wine!
It's also important to have wines I don't flinch to use in cooking, or if a guest at a big party sets down her glass and forgets where she left it.

Sauvignon Blanc: I don't drink large amounts of SB, but Dagueneau, Cotat, Vatan, and some Styrians are world class wines in my opinon.

Wine "rags": I'm down to John Gilman's View From the Cellar. That's less for use as a buying guide than for the domaine/vineyard historical perspectives. I also like Claude Kolm's FWR (and that I did use more as a buying guide), but the switch to e delivery seemed to lose me, and hard to reconnect. I'll occasionally grab a Decanter or WS or WE if I find myself waiting in Grand Central for a train and am without book.

Tough year: Indeed.

[Jenise]

At the risk of sounding like a rich snob (which I am not, at least not rich), I am getting increasingly irritated by the word "value". At this point in my life, life just seems too short to drink wine because it's a good deal. I am sure I will continue to drink value wine at people's homes, at restaurants, or as an unintended consequence of curiosity, but I have lost interest in cost/benefit for my sake....

I went through this phase. I found myself owning too many wines that didn't please me enough, but which had been purchased for their good value. So I decided to suspend nearly all purchases except those that hi-graded my collection and gave me a better range of selections to drag to offlines and a better foundation of wines from my new home state, Washington. Sheer loyalty talking there--finding wines that suit my preference for subtlety and reasonably low alcohol can be challenging, but it's not impossible and some of these wines are worth cellaring. Then in the last couple months I opened a bottle of Beaujulais that enchanted, as well as an 05 Loire Pinot and over the last two weeks a bunch of 8-10 year old Cotes du Rhones, none of which cost more than $15, and all of a sudden I'm optimistic again about the possibilities for value. These wines weren't just "pretty good for fifteen bucks", they were good period. They were lean and racy and lighter weight and full of nuance, and they went beautifully with food. And the Rhones, anyway, don't mind getting lost in the cellar.

Newly optimistic, even with a $100K home remodel looming on the very near horizon and the meltdown of Wall St, I ordered six bottles of an 06 Bojo yesterday and had a retailer set aside some 05 Vacqueyras for me. Yes, even in tighter times, my cellar work can continue.

[David M. Bueker]

For about 2 years I was on a "fewer but better" kick, building up treasures in the cellar. Now I'm building up daily drinkers as I went through a period where I wanted everything in the cellar to age. Argh - is there no balance?!?!

After I saw one year what I had spent I simply quit cold turkey. Oh, wait; that wasn't wine related...

[Jenise]

For about 2 years I was on a "fewer but better" kick, building up treasures in the cellar. Now I'm building up daily drinkers as I went through a period where I wanted everything in the cellar to age. Argh - is there no balance?!?!

None! You know what, we've been on parallel tracks for years with fairly similar tastes, though I'm absent your Reisling obsession. It's to the point that I have no doubt at all that we'll continue this way. When you figure out what's next, let me know, okay?

Then in the last couple months I opened a bottle of Beaujulais that enchanted, as well as an 05 Loire Pinot and over the last two weeks a bunch of 8-10 year old Cotes du Rhones, none of which cost more than $15, and all of a sudden I'm optimistic again about the possibilities for value. These wines weren't just "pretty good for fifteen bucks", they were good period.

But, but, but, I wasn't railing at inexpensive wines. The above, which I totally identify with, sounds to me, instead, like "all of a sudden I'm optimistic again about the possibilities for inexpensive." Perhaps my idea of "value" involves some degree (even if minimal) of concession in exchange for savings. There are many inexpensive wines that I like a lot and drink without thinking "hmmm, good cost/benefit" or "not bad for the price." That's what I meant by "value." I love inexpensive wines as long as I am not making concessions in the taste department simply because they are inexpensive.

Value - what a concept. We've been gifting many "value" wines which no longer occupy our interest for a few years now. I mentioned a while back ttoo hat I have been on a no-buying streak for about 20 months.

What with the gifting, curbs on wine buying, monthly liquidation parties, and ongoing drinking, our wine inventory has dropped almost 40 cases. That's a really good thing, though I am gritting my teeth hard now. We are trying to make it through year's end as the market absorbs the highly-regarded 2005 and 2006 Northern Rhone releases without us.

I'm just about to run out of moderately-priced dry white wine entirely. We'll probably just switch to Kabinett from Haart, Haag and Prum for a while. There's lots of this in the cold room too.

But on the shelf for tonight's snack:
Clape 1994 Cornas
von Schubert's 1994 Maximim Grunhauser Herrenberg Auslefe 45.

I love inexpensive wines as long as I am not making concessions in the taste department simply because they are inexpensive.

I make that concession all the time. I drink Barde Haut and La Louviere, even though I personally prefer Cheval Blanc (make mine the '83, please) and Haut Brion. I drink a lot of Lafarge Bourgogne and village Volnay, even though the Clos des Chenes is my favorite. I drink a lot more Produttori del Barbaresco than Giacosa, but would never claim I prefer the former.

I like all of the wines I drink (more than once), but admit to making concessions.