Reality check: Is QPR getting harder to find?

[Robin Garr]

In this week's 30 Second Wine Advisor, I rather crabbily ask whether the wine-geek world agrees with me that it is getting harder than ever to find the "sweet spot" between good wine and affordable wine. What do you think? Do trips to the wine shop for a good, interesting "everyday" wine that you can afford for dinner without breaking the bank leave you feeling frustrated and cranky? Let 'er rip!

I guess it depends on the definitions.

QPR for California wines remains challenging to me. Too many cheap California wines are sweet fruit juice made in industrial parks and I just would rather have a soft drink, to be honest. But even here, there are exceptions. Broc Cellars remains cheap for wine geek wines, and I love 'em! There is a local winery, GV Cellars, whose wines are not earthshaking in any way but I think they offer very pleasant drinking at a "reasonable" (teens and twenties) cost. But that is my definition of reasonable, of course.

French wines from the Provençale Wine Lake are the go to for cheap QPR wines for me. I don't tend to like the Spanish equivalents (too sweet, oaky, and goopy) and Italy is more hit and miss (but can still offer great deals). Just am not excited by Chilean or Argentine wines over all (although Rutini was intriguing) and South Africa wines are too often marred by that weird plastic bandaid taste. I can be persuaded otherwise!

not yet..still have plenty of good stuff left in the cellar..have pretty much stopped buying from some admittedly terrific winery mailing lists, typically big reds....However, when I do need to reload on some everyday wines, find it easy enough to do re whites, a little harder re reds ..but I have more reds than whites in the cellar so that is not a current problem..Also, lots of good buys out there re roses and, since I am not a big champagne fan, Prosecco prices fit my budget quite nicely.

My affordable point may be a little higher because I live alone and usually drink a bottle over three evenings, not in a single night. There are still some bargains to be found in Rioja and other regions but usually I do pay $20 or more per bottle. I don't buy many South American wines which might lower the average cost. I guess I got a real bargain Saturday on the 2012 Foley Estates Pinot Noir Two Sisters Lindsay's Vineyard, Sta. Rita Hills, Santa Barbara County, Ca. I bought two bottles at $29.99 each and past vintages have sold from $50 to $60 on average. I was thinking that $30 was a good price for a California Pinot Noir but didn't realize how much it usually costs until I looked at CellarTracker records on past vintages.
I would count as another QPR the 2012 Veuve Aubert Aine Bourgogne at $16.99 per bottle. But again, most of my purchases cost more than $20 a bottle.

[David M. Bueker]

I don't think so. Since Laura and I are double income no kids our QPR number is higher, but I still draw the line at $25 for "affordable." There is a lot of solid, tasty wine around for $15, and the $20 mark brings in some real names and fantastic stuff. Bedrock Old Vines Zin is under $20!

[Robin Garr]

the $20 mark brings in some real names and fantastic stuff. Bedrock Old Vines Zin is under $20!

Yeah, we're on the same page of the hymn book but singing different tunes. I agree on the $20 point, but I'm also feeling uncomfortable about $20 for "everyday." Like JC, Mary and I are splitting a bottle AND trying to make it last for a second night. Sometimes that works out fine, but the better the wine, the harder it is to stop after one good pour each.

And I guess I'm showing my years a bit, because I can remember when this line wa drawn at $5, then $8, then $10, lately $15 or so, and it just seems that the line has bounced up to $20 too fast.

Also that more and more of the wines under $20 are either industrially produced, correct but boring and/or increasingly spoofy. So many Pays d'Oc French wines, for instance, with wacky labels in English clearly made for the low-end US market, and what's in the bottle tastes like they're going for points only with cheap fruit.

Grumblegrumblegrumble

Hmmm. Some ways and days, yes. Some ways and days, no.

I'm fairly happy still with the ability to glean good choices from the all-too-overpopulated herd of under-delivering nonentities and over-priced absurdities.

And my QPR mansion has many rooms, so there's a lot of leeway. I try to remember that the R is always incumbent, not upon Q, and not upon P, but upon the ever-changing ratio of R between the two.

Just when I want to give up my exploration of discover I rediscover...oh, Cotes de Gascogne (hey, don't like the rules? break the rules!), Savoie, and as Brian points out, the joys of Provence, the never-ending joys of Provence. Used to be only for roses, but now it is for all colors and flavors (and oddly enough, with the popularity for dry roses returning, the damned QPRs there are actually getting harder to find, what with higher prices and more fool's pink gold out there).

I do not think the fervor for seeking out QPRs amongst the small retailers is as pervasive or as powerful as it used to be though. There's either not the same drive for that, or enough reward for doing it with the customers. Perhaps the passion for wine is so generalized that it seeks being as driven towards the discovery as before? Or perhaps the discovery is easier to find in all the abundance we're offered, and therefore we don't spend as much effort (or have to spend as much effort) to find it as we did when we were the proud cutting edge of geekery?

But boy am I maundering, so I'll stop. You're welcome.

I have had some terrific prices on the Finger Lakes Wines with excellent quality. Virtually everything I buy from them is less than $20. I filled out my Christmas shopping for sibs at Knapp Wines, and I'm embarrassed to say how much it cost.

[David M. Bueker]

As long as Pepiere Clos des Briords is under $20 then value is alive and well.

Like buttons here would be more economical, but yes, David, that's as good a measuring point as any.

Difficult question to properly answer, and I imagine much would depend on the time frame. Prices may be escalating faster than they used to, but I imagine so is selection and availability, which should make it easier to find QPR.

Another angle to the question is whether QPR is harder to find once your tastes broaden and you are less satisfied with simpler wines!

Personally, it's a difficult question to answer because I was formed in wine around 15 years ago, but was a grad student. So I have noticed the rapid price escalation on certain wines that used to be easier to buy. But overall my purchasing power has greatly increased, so I'm not complaining.

not sure i agree, but i suspect it varies from region to region. being an italian fan, i still find lots of value in a wide spectrum of varietals - but it does take some effort.

[Robin Garr]

As long as Pepiere Clos des Briords is under $20 then value is alive and well.

Word. But there's another example. Every time I get a Chambers Street E-mail, I notice that a lot of my old friends that used to sell in the teens now sell in the $20s. The dollar is strong against the Euro again, but for the first time in my memory, this has not (yet?) been followed by a drop in US prices. What's that about?

Every time I get a Chambers Street E-mail, I notice that a lot of my old friends that used to sell in the teens now sell in the $20s. The dollar is strong against the Euro again, but for the first time in my memory, this has not (yet?) been followed by a drop in US prices. What's that about?

Aside from inflation, one guess could be increased demand. Chambers used to have a lot of our favorite wines sitting around languishing on shelves, but these names have become more popular both in and outside of France, which may help them get higher prices for their wines.

[David M. Bueker]

not sure i agree, but i suspect it varies from region to region. being an italian fan, i still find lots of value in a wide spectrum of varietals - but it does take some effort.

The Alto Adige certainly provides value.

I am finding QPR, at least for me, much easier to find now. Just today I had delivered two cases of wine to my door; Roblar Arroyo Seco Pinot Noir @ <10$/bottle and Wm. Knuttel Chalk Hill Chardonnay @ 20$. At these prices, I'm sure I will be very happy. I do admit to being half of a DINK so I have some easily disposable income, especially since we live very frugally otherwise. The flash internet sites I buy from, if you do your research, provide excellent QPR. I miss the intimacy of talking to retailers face-to-face but in the boon-docks where I live that is not a frequent option. It seems to me that if you do the research and put in the time, know what you want and wait, great deals are still available. I love Champagne and many producers, although obscure, are available for much less than 30$ which is just fine with me. Life is good!

[David M. Bueker]

Just went in the Chambers Street site, and these is a ton of under $20 wine, including many well known producers. Obviously Pepiere was there (3 times) and other Muscadet producers, but there was also Baudry, Guion, Brun and a bunch more. Some were closer to $12 than $20.

I think this quote from British wine critic Janis Robinson says it all: “The irony is that just as the difference in price between the best and worst wines is greater than its ever been, the difference in quality is narrower than ever before”.

Salute

If I say, "that is good QPR," all I am saying is that I felt the wine to be worth more than I paid.

If I say, "that is good QPR," all I am saying is that I felt the wine to be worth more than I paid.

I can go with that definition. But additionally I think that there is absolute QPR, e.g. anything I enjoy drinking under €5 and nothing costing more than, say, €100. That's why I am amused when a poster initiated a QPR thread on another site quoting a $128 wine as an example; a generic Gevrey-Chambertin from Rousseau, IIRC.

Over here, we can still find nice wines under €5, particularly during the Foires aux Vins. Here is one I bought this autumn -

2014 Domaine de l'Ancienne Cure Bergerac Rouge Le Colombier - France, Southwest France, Dordogne, Bergerac Rouge (12/2/2015)
I have tended to ignore wines from Bordeaux satellites like Bergerac in the past but should change that if there are more out there as charming and such good value as this one. Attractive bouquet of smooth red fruit and tangy forest floor (the seller's catalogue says black truffles!?). Medium bodied palate with more attractive slightly creamy red fruit, minerals, more "black truffles", fresh acidity and a quite firm but well covered backbone. Should be drunk in the first flush of youth IMO. Good wine and excellent QPR at <€5.
Posted from CellarTracker

PS: CT's post monitoring software blacklisted me when I first posted this . But Eric promptly put that right. Can anyone see anything objectionable?

[David M. Bueker]

Makes no sense to me Tim, but then aren't computers smarter than all of us?

[Robin Garr]

PS: CT's post monitoring software blacklisted me when I first posted this . But Eric promptly put that right. Can anyone see anything objectionable?

Maybe it thought "Should be drunk" was lifestyle advice?

[Jenise]

I think this quote from British wine critic Janis Robinson says it all: “The irony is that just as the difference in price between the best and worst wines is greater than its ever been, the difference in quality is narrower than ever before”.

Salute

I've sensed that this was the case but my view is so narrow that I wouldn't have dared say it out loud--glad to hear Jancis confirm it.

Which is why my answer to Robin's question is 'no', that is as long as QPR is adjusted for inflation. We used to have this conversation at the $10 price point. I agree that $20 is now more realistic, while observing that I'm still frequently impressed with some of the wines available in the $12-$16 price point. What has changed drastically since the $10 days is that the good values are almost exclusively imports. Yes, there are flash sales and close-outs to take advantage of that make some domestic values advantageously available, but at MSRP domestic production loses out to product from Spain, Italy, the Languedoc, Chile and Argentina on a very routine basis.

[David M. Bueker]

Adjusting for inflation is in fact very important. $8 in 1982 is over $19 today based on historical inflation rates. Even if we move the $8 forward to 1989 it still ends up over $15.