WTN: And again, I question why petite sirah

[Jenise]

Took these two to my brother's house for Tony watching:

2023 Lail Vineyards Sauvignon Blanc Blueprint Yountville
Simply fantastic. Lightly grassy, layered mid-palate with gooseberry fruit, good finish. Great presence for current drinking but another two years in the bottle will more depth and resonance.

2005 Sean Thackrey Petite Sirah Sirius Eaglepoint Ranch Mendocino County
A wine I've owned since release and constantly pass over in the cellar. It never seems to fit in anywhere I need to go, but since John was grilling steak and they're not picky...it finally escaped. This bottle is a good example of why I, and literally every other geek I know, tend to ignore this grape. Decanted for two hours, it drank well enough and had a great nose and plummy evidence of quality, but its best days are probably another decade away and there's more complexity and satisfaction in a good cabernet or syrah.

[David M. Bueker]

The only truly “ready” high level PS wines I have ever had were the early 1970s (specifically ’71 and’74) Ridge York Creek. Other than that it’s always been a work in progress.

[Jenise]

The only truly “ready” high level PS wines I have ever had were the early 1970s (specifically ’71 and’74) Ridge York Creek. Other than that it’s always been a work in progress.

Same. My first ever PS was an old Ridge York Creek. Nothing since has impressed in the same way. I only have one other in the cellar right now, a '91 Stags Leap. I'm sure it's ready but no one in my circles has ever wondered aloud why we don't see more PSs at our tastings.

[David M. Bueker]

One of the guys in my group has over 500 bottles of PS, and keeps buying more. He never drinks it!

Durif, or petite sirah is a cross between peloursin and syrah, but sadly, the only thing peloursin brings to the table is better resistance to mildew. You get dark inky concentrated wines lacking elegance, bt that is the sort of wine that seems to impress a segment of the buying public.

My cellar holds some BC made PS, which does yeoman-like service with big stews etc., as well as some 97 Turley PS which somehow is actually pretty decent. The BC made stuff lacks the objectionable weight and simplicity of many Aussie and US version and that is a good thing.

Given that some people are impressed more with the shock and awe theory of winemaking rather than smooth subtlety, it isn't surprising that there is still a following for PS.

[Jenise]

My cellar holds some BC made PS, which does yeoman-like service with big stews etc., as well as some 97 Turley PS which somehow is actually pretty decent.

I've had some of your Turleys. IIRC, the last one you shared was served with a cheese course in place of a port. That, really, says it all. Drinkable though they sometimes are they never dazzle, and mostly they bore; I never wake up the next morning and look over my notes thinking "I really need to look into that...."

[David M. Bueker]

Durif, or petite sirah is a cross between peloursin and syrah, but sadly, the only thing peloursin brings to the table is better resistance to mildew. You get dark inky concentrated wines lacking elegance, bt that is the sort of wine that seems to impress a segment of the buying public.

My cellar holds some BC made PS, which does yeoman-like service with big stews etc., as well as some 97 Turley PS which somehow is actually pretty decent. The BC made stuff lacks the objectionable weight and simplicity of many Aussie and US version and that is a good thing.

Given that some people are impressed more with the shock and awe theory of winemaking rather than smooth subtlety, it isn't surprising that there is still a following for PS.

I have never seen nor tasted an Australian Petite Sirah.

No - they don't call it that, they call it Durif.
I don't think I've ever seen an Aussie version that was called Petite Sirah..

I've had some of your Turleys. IIRC, the last one you shared was served with a cheese course in place of a port. That, really, says it all. Drinkable though they may be, they never dazzle; I never wake up the next morning and look over my notes thinking "I really need to look into that...."

Agree! Remind me to open a Kettle Valley some time and see what you think of it.

[David M. Bueker]

No - they don't call it that, they call it Durif.
I don't think I've ever seen an Aussie version that was called Petite Sirah..

Never seen an Aussie Durif either.

[Jenise]

The two Aussies I remember having, Charles Cimicky and Oliver Hill, were called PS not Durif, so they do use both names.

I went looking for something here just now and came across notes about a long-ago neighborhood tasting of just PS I don't remember at all. I absolutely love my description: "Those Petite Sirahs last night had me backed into a corner like a big man with bad breath and too many stories. I just wanted to get away."

[David M. Bueker]

So Jenise, here’s your choice, Petite Sirah or a bear?

I would think that Australian producers would not use a name for the grape unfamiliar to other markets for their export wines and I agree that I haven't seen a bottle of Durif here, but....

Welp, I have nearly six cases of old vine California PS in my cellar, of which about a third are Ridge, a third Dirty and Rowdy, and a third Once and Future, with a small number of bottles from Retro Cellars in the mix (made by Mike Dunn from the former Park-Muscatine vineyard). I’ve had a lot of bottles of PS over the years from other producers, and occasionally from these, too, that have failed to compel, so I understand where this thread is coming from, but I’ve also experienced fabulous bottles that had a remarkable combination of dark, brooding fruit and floral aromatics that I don’t find in quite that combination anywhere else, which is what, apparently in violation of all the rules of proper geekdom, I’ve kept chasing.

The only truly “ready” high level PS wines I have ever had were the early 1970s (specifically ’71 and’74) Ridge York Creek. Other than that it’s always been a work in progress.

The '71 that I tasted in the mid-'90's at a BipinDesai tasting was probably one of the greatest Calif Red wines
I've ever tasted. The '74 was not far behind.
Tom

[David M. Bueker]

The only truly “ready” high level PS wines I have ever had were the early 1970s (specifically ’71 and’74) Ridge York Creek. Other than that it’s always been a work in progress.

The '71 that I tasted in the mid-'90's at a BipinDesai tasting was probably one of the greatest Calif Red wines
I've ever tasted. The '74 was not far behind.
Tom

The '71 is still in my personal Top 10 of wines I have ever tasted. I've had it three times and been blown away each time.

The only truly “ready” high level PS wines I have ever had were the early 1970s (specifically ’71 and’74) Ridge York Creek. Other than that it’s always been a work in progress.

The '71 that I tasted in the mid-'90's at a BipinDesai tasting was probably one of the greatest Calif Red wines
I've ever tasted. The '74 was not far behind.
Tom

The '71 is still in my personal Top 10 of wines I have ever tasted. I've had it three times and been blown away each time.

The '71 was not particularly profound upon release. It was extremely intense, loads of PS fruit, a on of Am.oak. But you just had this 6'th sense that it would evolve into something special.
That same yr, David Bruce made a Gilroy PS that was even blacker, higher alcohol, loads of Fr.oak, quite a LateHrvst PS. It just turned into an old raisened/pruney LateHrvst within 10 yrs and never did evolve into anything special.
Tom

I recall a large group dinner where I was seated near Steve Edmunds. When a Ridge 1996 Petite Sirah York Creek went around, he tasted it, turned to me and asked, "Is there any reason to give this grape a second look?" It was brutal, tannic, acidic, unevolved, probably little different from the day it was bottled... 17 years earlier.

Petit Sirah endures but, aside from a few special cases, it does not develop.

One wineaux suggests it makes a great birth-year wine for your kids: it's sure to be sound whenever it's pulled.

Petit Sirah endures but, aside from a few special cases, it does not develop..

This nails it for me. Too many 20+ year old wines that survive but don't change .

Petit Sirah endures but, aside from a few special cases, it does not develop..

Sounds like a good description of aging wine aficionados too - at this stage in life I am into longevity, not looking for improvement!

[Jenise]

One of the guys in my group has over 500 bottles of PS, and keeps buying more. He never drinks it!

Crazy! What's his plan?

[David M. Bueker]

One of the guys in my group has over 500 bottles of PS, and keeps buying more. He never drinks it!

Crazy! What's his plan?

No plan. He just keeps buying outrageous quantities of wine. He did sell some Burgundies to pay for one kid’s college, but he’s bought more wine since then. I often think I am at the peak of wine crazy, and then I see what he’s up to, and think it could be worse.

Presumably, he hopes to excel at something.

[David M. Bueker]

He is always chasing some new fascination. Lately it is old school Aussie wines. Suddenly he has a large collection of them.