Hating on Bordeaux? I hate on Cali Pinot!

does California produce anything exciting these days?

Right now the grapefruits, oranges, and dates are pretty exciting.

But soon we'll be onto strawberries.

does California produce anything exciting these days?

Right now the grapefruits, oranges, and dates are pretty exciting.

But soon we'll be onto strawberries.

I can get excited about a grapefruit!

I had the fascinating experience, last fall, of tasting about 10 or so barrel samples of '06 PN, each made from a particular PN clone, and discussing them with Rod Berglund, who had farmed the grapes and made the wines. These were to become the various Joseph Swan PNs, after blending.
We talked about each clone and what its profile was and what, if anything, he'd done differently in making the wine.
Wow.
About 6 or 7 of them were Davis clones and the rest were French clones (sorry, I didn't take notes and don't remember the names). A couple of the Davis clones were, to my infamously numb nose and not that bad tongue, extremely similar to the French clones.
I remember thinking at the time that there was only one clone that I'd really love in a bottle after a few years. Most of the others had a really good point or two and a point or two that was lacking.
It was Rod Berglund and all the grapes were Russian River Valley vines, and about half of them came from Saralee's Vineyard. Included was the Trenton Station clone that comes from the Joseph Swan estate vineyard. It hadn't been gene-typed yet. Taste-wise, it was quite distinctive, much like one of the French clones and a Davis clone that was supposedly the "same thing". Yet different - perhaps because of the great age of the vines, perhaps because it wasn't one of those clones.
I went down that row of clones twice, carefully spitting. And I had a good buzz on at the end!

My conclusion? These were all grapes farmed and made into wine by the same person. There were very marked differences in them, and they didn't have, to my taste, the Oregonian or SLO kinds of flavor. Strangely, none of them tasted like Rod's wines as he finally bottles and sells them. The closest was the estate clone, and I had never before had a barrel sample of that (and only two bottles!)

So, I'll say that whether the vines are "Davis" clones or "Beaune" clones or whatever, the climates, farming and winemaking make the real difference.

Am I hopeless?

Brian, yes, you are almost an atavism already. To know whether your gene pool will be driven out of existence, merely look at those who are reproducing fastest. The French are among the slowest, and the population cancer is heating the planet, driving heretofore grand terriors to produce cherry, if not atomic, bombs. Funk and interest will be dead soon. Be thankful you are alive now to taste the residue.

I too like Gary Farrell Pinot Noirs (but I like a number of other Pinots from the Russian River Valley as well and, yes, the Gary Farrell was one of the paler colored wines.) I don't care for the cherry cola flavor which I more often find in Carneros Pinots although it sometimes crops up elsewhere. My favorite recent Pinot find was a Donum Estate from the Carneros region. See this blog for more information on blending Dijon clones (Donum finds the clones need each other:http://www.ultimatepinot.com/honing-in-on-dijon-clones/
I also like the Joseph Swan Trenton Estate Pinot Noir although that was one David Bueker didn't particularly like.

My conclusion? These were all grapes farmed and made into wine by the same person. There were very marked differences in them, and they didn't have, to my taste, the Oregonian or SLO kinds of flavor. Strangely, none of them tasted like Rod's wines as he finally bottles and sells them. The closest was the estate clone, and I had never before had a barrel sample of that (and only two bottles!)

So, I'll say that whether the vines are "Davis" clones or "Beaune" clones or whatever, the climates, farming and winemaking make the real difference.

Hi John,
Thanks for your post.
I think I (unwittingly) have misled people by refering to 'Davis Clones' - what I should have said was "Clones recommended by Davis" - and these are certainly of Burgundian origin. In particular the Davis-recommended (and widely planted) Dijon Clones 667, 777 and 115 are at the root (sorry!) of the problem/issue. These are the clones that fail to excite me (so far) when planted (actually tasted) proximately to the S&B vineyard Wente (aka Mount Eden) clones. I'm not sure if the Dijon clones are also planted (presumably younger vines) in S&B - maybe someone can help there. My 'revelation' was that the S&B vineyard - IN THE GLASS - was so different from other neighbouring vineyards that I tried to discover why/how. The clonal variation was the discovery that gave me the 'Aha!' moment.
Now my ambition is to repeat your tasting, if that ever comes my way. The challenge (for me) is to ascertain whether the differences are due to environment (terroir?) or to variations in the clone planted.

Incidentally, I also followed the link in JC's post immediately above. Essentially this covers the blending of the same 3 Dijon clones already referred to - not surprisingly as these are the 'Davis-recommended' stock - and these are identified as early ripening in particular. Does this make sense in California where we tend to have longer summers (than in Europe)?

In particular the following note (from a grapegrower - Anne Moller-Racke) was notable:

"The Dijon clones were earliest. First they came off of the more gravelly soils of the Blue Farm vineyard around my house, in Carneros but closer to Sonoma. Then the 667 and 777 Dijon clones at Ferguson Block were ready, followed by those at Donum, on heavier clay soils. Finally, both the 115 and 667 Dijons came in from Nugent Vineyard in the Russian River Valley.

Now we’re picking the rest of the heirloom selections – Calera, Chalone, Hanzell, Martini, Roederer and Swan. In this moderate, drawn-out season of ripening, the clones have asserted themselves."

http://www.ultimatepinot.com/by-order-o ... s/#more-38

I have a set of wines made from various clones on the same terroir by FlatRock, a Niagara Pinot specialist. i'm waiting for some wine geeks and various sundry Sommeliers to visit so I cna crack this flight.

There's definitely a 667 and a 115 in there. He also made a blend of them to his taste -- that is, the blend that he thought was his best wine. I have some of those too.

Great Pinots, which kick Cali ass .

Hi Craig,
We tried to get these as well - except he didn't make them last year - crop was too small so everything was blended together.
But still on our 'want' list going forward.
But, to be realistic, Ontario summer is not as hot as California, so we probably won't get the full ripeness. And those early ripening clones are the only ones available here - can't do a comparison with the Wente/Mt Eden clone.
Alan

Not sure I want the full ripeness....

?

Come down for a visit so I can crack those screwtops!

Why is hating California Pinot such a problem? I wouldn't even call most of the stuff that fits under that rubric "wine" (where's Joel Goldberg? He'll probably be very pissed at this one...) and consider it an insult to real Pinot Noir, the grape. Of course, there are some producers making drinkable wine from Pinot Noir in California. I think of some of the bottles I've tried from Joe Davis at Arcadian and can smile a bit. And the real Jay Miller (not Fat Bastard's cousin who works for Parker) has poured a couple of other decent things for me, the names of which I can't recall right now.

And hey, hating Bordeaux shouldn't be any big deal either. The region through which I was first introduced to fine wine many years ago no longer exists. In its place there is this monster of greed and vulgarity... Sure, a few addresses remain making wine, I know that, but the name of the region has been corrupted by the point-seekign enotrashionistas. And hey, the kind of money they dare to ask for the spoofulated swill they peddle is reason enough for a good thrashing, at least in my book.

Ah, I hadn't posted here in a while. Just thought I'd do a good, tasty wake-up...

does California produce anything exciting these days?

Right now the grapefruits, oranges, and dates are pretty exciting.

But soon we'll be onto strawberries.

What, they've finally decided to plant with something viable? How are the avocados?

[David M. Bueker]

Imagine that...hatred of Cali Pinot brings out the ol' LL.

Welcome back Manuel. Stay a while. This is a Serge-free zone.

Why is hating California Pinot such a problem? I wouldn't even call most of the stuff that fits under that rubric "wine" (where's Joel Goldberg? He'll probably be very pissed at this one...) and consider it an insult to real Pinot Noir, the grape. Of course, there are some producers making drinkable wine from Pinot Noir in California. I think of some of the bottles I've tried from Joe Davis at Arcadian and can smile a bit. And the real Jay Miller (not Fat Bastard's cousin who works for Parker) has poured a couple of other decent things for me, the names of which I can't recall right now.

And hey, hating Bordeaux shouldn't be any big deal either. The region through which I was first introduced to fine wine many years ago no longer exists. In its place there is this monster of greed and vulgarity... Sure, a few addresses remain making wine, I know that, but the name of the region has been corrupted by the point-seekign enotrashionistas. And hey, the kind of money they dare to ask for the spoofulated swill they peddle is reason enough for a good thrashing, at least in my book.

Ah, I hadn't posted here in a while. Just thought I'd do a good, tasty wake-up...

This True Believer schtik is almost as dated as a Jackie Mason routine. Do you have any new material?

This True Believer schtik is almost as dated as a Jackie Mason routine. Do you have any new material?

Well, Dan, I tried a "New Latin Liquidator" bit some time ago, driven by marketing research from some idiots I hired, who did the most amazingly misguided focus-grouping and decided I "definitely needed new material". So we rolled out the "New Latin Liquidator", hoping for the best. The public reaction was unequivocal. The "New Latin Liquidator" sucked. So we had to return to "Liquidator Classic". And that's what you're getting.

But I'm curious, by "new material" would you mean some sort of about-face text that suddenly finds 17%-alcohol, syrupy, overwooded, no-acid globs "worthy of praise"?

And I'm shocked about the "True Believer" tag. Seems to me the Kool Aid station is rather far from where I sit... I'm in the "Believe Nothing Wine Big Biz Spouts" camp.

This is a Serge-free zone.

Well, David, oddly enough, Serge recently made an excellent recco (on the comments section of Lyle Fass' blog) of a book titled Mobs, Messiahs and Markets: Surviving the Public Spectacle in Finance and Politics, by William Bonner and Lila Rajiva, which does seem to be very applicable to the more hyperventilating sectors of the wine world these days.

Good to be back. I've been devoting altogether too much time to my Spanish-language blog and feel like I'm failing my friends over here and on WT. A sad situation I am now hoping to reverse.

But I'm curious, by "new material" would you mean some sort of about-face text that suddenly finds 17%-alcohol, syrupy, overwooded, no-acid globs "worthy of praise"?

No one should have to drink wines that they don't like; can't say that I like high-alc, flabby, woody wines myself. Yet I'm not ready to cast those that do into the wilderness wearing the burgundy P* of shame. I'd much rather taste for myself and discover what I like.

As to new material, how about a discourse on wines that I you love that I might enjoy trying.


*stands for Parker Point Pursuer

oh, my post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, if painful, due to the grinding occasioned by the use of that abomination of a word "spoofulated". Personal bias.

Occhipinti, "Il Frappato", Etna, Sicilia IGT 2005. There you go. That rocks my world right now...

And I did say something about wines I likes made with Pinot Noir in California, so not everyone gets P'd on.

Spoofulation!
Spoofulation!
Spoofulation!

THere, see? That wasn't that bad now, was it?

[David M. Bueker]

Manuel,

While I have got you here, have you had the following?

2001 R. López de Heredia Rioja Crianza Viña Cubillo

2001 R. López de Heredia Rioja Crianza Viña Cubillo

Nope, sorry David. I often wonder why Cubillo doesn't show up in NYC. True, it can often be a rather tough little thing, but there are vintages in which it's done quite nicely for me.

[David M. Bueker]

I had never seen it until this bottling.

I had never seen it until this bottling.

It's their basic red. It's still aged much longer than any other crianza in the market afaik. Very López de Heredia, in its own modest way.

I had never seen it until this bottling.

It's good David. I tasted it over Christmas. While I'm no Lopez Heredia expert, it was more direct and fruit first (in a LH kinda way) than anything else I've tasted from them -while continuing to bring the spiced up funk. It's also their cheapest bottling by quite a few dollars. I need to taste the Rose again. What's the 'current' vintage?

I had never seen it until this bottling.

It's good David. I tasted it over Christmas. While I'm no Lopez Heredia expert, it was more direct and fruit first (in a LH kinda way) than anything else I've tasted from them -while continuing to bring the spiced up funk. It's also their cheapest bottling by quite a few dollars. I need to taste the Rose again. What's the 'current' vintage?

1997. And yes, that is a pretty fair assessment of Cubillo in a ripe year...

M.

Occhipinti, "Il Frappato", Etna, Sicilia IGT 2005. There you go. That rocks my world right now...

Merci, sounds interesting and I've haven't had the Frappato grape yet. I'll look for it, although a casual peek on Wine-Searcher was not too encouraging.

Is the wire on Heredia bottlings a hex against the s-word?