Monday March 13: Victor de la Serna and Spanish Wines (Controversial!)

[James Roscoe]

David, that's fair enough. I do go to Corridor every week. Their Spanish list seems abysmal. I go to Calvert-Woodly more often as it is much more accesible to where I live.

You really have to understand DC and the 'burbs. I live in PG Co. Which is considered the "ghetto" county by the rest of the area and we are underserved in almost every way imaginable despite having an extremely high average income per household. There is a whole racial political edge to it I don't have time to get into, but it's pretty pathetic.

It's very difficult when two of the richest counties in the country, Montgomery Co. in MD and Fairfax in VA get all the services and roads and we get nothing. MacArthurs serves those areas, not mine. It's just as easy to go to Baltimore as it is to get to the other side of DC. (I guess I'm ranting now aren't I? Sorry. ) So where we talking about Spanish wines?

I guess I am comfortable with the French wines. I will look for the wines Joe points out. I think C-W has them.

[David M. Bueker]

James,

My wife is from Baltimore & we visit DC on a pretty regular basis. It s a bit crazy to get around, but in its own way no worse than Boston or any other major city.

Some of the Baltimore shops are very good. I cannot vouch for their Spanish selections, but Wine Source is and excellent retailer.

Hoke, I know exactly what I did. Isn't that the point?

And you accuse me of feeding the troll??? :^)

[James Roscoe]

Hoke, I know exactly what I did. Isn't that the point?

And you accuse me of feeding the troll??? :^)

Maybe.

Everyone is entitled to a little trolling now and then, especially in the name of truth and justice and all that. Is it really that bad? We haven't had a good arguement around here in a while. I was in the mood so to speak.

[James Roscoe]

James,

My wife is from Baltimore & we visit DC on a pretty regular basis. It s a bit crazy to get around, but in its own way no worse than Boston or any other major city.

Some of the Baltimore shops are very good. I cannot vouch for their Spanish selections, but Wine Source is and excellent retailer.

As much as I dislike B'more (the city of Peter Angelos, the most loathsome mammal on the planet.) I love the Wine Source. I guess I need to check out the Spanish selection next time I'm there. I don't find the staff as helpful as at some stores, but I love the tastings, and the prices are great.

The next time you are in the area, try Iron Bridge out in Columbia/Clarksville area. It's a great wine bar/restaurant/store. As full disclosure, I do pour for their big tastings as a volunteer.

Hoke, I know exactly what I did. Isn't that the point?

And you accuse me of feeding the troll??? :^)

Maybe.

Everyone is entitled to a little trolling now and then, especially in the name of truth and justice and all that. Is it really that bad? We haven't had a good arguement around here in a while. I was in the mood so to speak.

Oh, i understand, James.

It's just that...well, you're a braver (or more fooolish) man than I am to bait Victor. He's...err...legendary... in some of his responses, let's say. Although he has been relatively mellow in the past few years ( I think that started about the same time he started investing so much energy into establishing his vineyard.:^))

[James Roscoe]

You will remain responsible for only what you say Randy!

Hoke, I have no problem being evescerated in a good cause. I just wish I knew what the cause was.

I did look in my cellar and found one Spanish wine from Jumilla. I have half a case from Portugal. The Portuguese wine is Grao Vasco Garrafiera from 1999. It's delicious at $9. I don't find that value in Spain.

[David M. Bueker]

James,

You're just not looking. As much as I am not a fan of the Wine Advocate (except for David Schilknech being there now), you can at least get some good leads on values in the latest Spain reviews.

[David M. Bueker]

The originator of this thread wishes to make it publicly known that he can not be held responsible for its content or possible misappropriation.

That's fine, but this thread is proof of what I said on the Shoe.

Wow, a thread that has everything- drama, conflict, humor, romance. OK, no romance. I'll try to join in, and see if I can get everyone pissed at me!

James, while I'm not the biggest consumer of Spanish wines, I'm surprised at the "not offering QPR" charge. While they are not in many cases my stylistic favorites, I don't know of any other country that offers as many well-made wines in the under $10 category. I like things like the $6-7 regular Borsao, but if your tastes are Rhonish you have lots of options in the Garnacha/Monastrell based wines. I'd be less surprised if your favorite red region was Burgundy or Loire.

Victor, while I've learned from your posts over the years, I have to say that David does have a point. If (and of course only if) what you would like to do is educate people about wine (and Spanish wine in particular), then perhaps a less confrontational/sarcastic style might be more useful. Of course, maybe that isn't your goal. If that's the case, may you and Manuel joust eternally!

By the way, I must say that I've always enjoyed Finca Sandoval ('01-'03). I carried the '02 to a "Spanish wine" (yes, Rioja, Priorat, Ribera del Duero, and more!) offline and it was one of my favorites (Dan Posner's, too!). Of course, if one wanted LyH Bosconia, you might be disappointed.

Randy, you started it, you own it.

Hoke, we all know you buy Purina Troll Chow™ by the truckload.

I am not out to educate anyone on anything. I am on no mission (and I certainly don't work for Wines from Spain or any other promotion lobby). I just like to pinpoint errors and prejudice, and there was a lot of unfounded prejudice in this thread. But then I haven't had to intervene much. Thanks to everyone else for making it all crystal clear. I really don't have anything else to add.

[James Roscoe]

James,

You're just not looking. As much as I am not a fan of the Wine Advocate (except for David Schilknech being there now), you can at least get some good leads on values in the latest Spain reviews.

Well, from what I read on the pages of this forum, it's not worrth the look. We are now back to where I wanted to go. It seems that You and joe P and Manuel C., all of whom I respect, have the opinion that Spanish wine in the $10 - $20 category is not really available. The talk sho didn't do anything to change the perception of that generalization. The wines Joe suggested are all in the $30 - $40 category, but I will look for them. What do I look for in the "everyday" category that can give me something different than a decent CdR or Italian red. What about a the $20 - $30 "weekend " category. I wasn't out to insult anyone.

I was just looking for a little education. I have gotten some from David and Joe. I was just hoping to find Spain had more to offer. What regions to look for? What producers? Should I look in the Spek? David suggests Wine Advocate. Are they better than the Spek on Spanish wines?

To show David that I can try to be constructive...

From the just-published Wine Advocate report on Spain, some wines rated 90 points or more and retailing for $7.00/$12.00 in the US market:

Reds: Monastrell 2005 Castaño, Carro 2005 Señorío de Barahonda (also a monastrell), Garnacha 2005 Pablo Menguante, Viña Gormaz Tempranillo 2005 Gormaz, Ercavio Roble 2005 Más que Vinos (more tempranillo), Tempranillo 2005 Pablo Menguante, Tempranillo 2004 Montebuena, Tinto 2005 Torremorón (100% tempranillo), M3 Monastrell 2005 Vinos sin Ley, M4 Monastrell 2005 Vinos sin Ley, G4 Garnacha 2005 Vinos sin Ley, Garnacha 2005 Las Rocas de San Alejandro, Viñedos de El Sequé 2005 (monastrell), Esencia de Monte 2005 Vinos de Terruños (monastrell again), Alto de la Hoya Monastrell 2005 Olivares, Tinto 2004 La Mano (prieto picudo/tempranillo/merlot blend), Hécula 2005 Castaño (monastrell), Mas Donís Barrica 2004 Capçanes (garnacha/syrah), Tres Picos 2005 Borsao (garnacha), Joven 2005 Peique (mencía), Gotim Bru 2004 Castell del remei (tempranillo/cabernet sauvignon/merlot), Montgó 2004 (monastrell/syrah/cabernet sauvignon), La Milla 2003 Vinos de Terruños (monastrell), Señorío de Valdehermoso 2004 Valderiz (tempranillo).

Whites: Con Class 2006 Sitios de Bodega (verdejo).

Fortified: Pedro Romero Amontillado Dry Rich (palomino), Pedro Romero Oloroso Dry (palomino), Pedro Romero Moscatel (moscatel romano).

I wouldn't call it a meager array... Not to mention that a bunch of other wines between $13.00 and $20.00 get ratings as high as 92 points, whatever that means.

[James Roscoe]

Thanks Victor. I also could care less about the points. I love Albarinos and drink them regularly, so I do drink Spanish whites. I will take this list and check my store and report back. Does anyone have any particular favorites I should look for? Yes, I am cherry-picking!

James, I'm drinking a 1996 R. Lopez de Heredia Vina Bosconia Reserva ($25) right now that is truly wonderful. I like the 1998 but this one just blows it away in depth of flavor and complexity. Ya, it's not an everyday $10 qpr but it gives you lots for the price.

I'm not sure what Corridor carries but some of the Total Wines carry CVNE crianza and reserva at <$12.

[James Roscoe]

David says I'm expecting too much from Spanish wines. He's probably right. That, combined with the poor quality at my store is most likely the source of my frustration.

[David M. Bueker]

A quick clarification before I get in all sorts of trouble - I think you're expecting too much from less expensive wines.

You know, I hardly ever visit a B&M store anymore. Most of what I buy, I get from the Internet. So I don't worry that it's an inconvenient drive to Chambers St., or the Rare Wine Co., or 1er Cru.

[James Roscoe]

You know, I hardly ever visit a B&M store anymore. Most of what I buy, I get from the Internet. So I don't worry that it's an inconvenient drive to Chambers St., or the Rare Wine Co., or 1er Cru.

I wish I could buy off the internet. Could you buy a few state legislators for me? The distributors lobby in Annapolis has a pretty solid hold on them right now, but I suspect at the right price they might be willing to "change their minds." For a guy like you that should be chump change.

[David M. Bueker]

Now there is an area where James has my complete sympathy (and understanding). Maryland is arguably the worst state in the union for buying wine.

Heck, we're talking about a state where it's illegal to take wine past the city limits of Baltimore into greater Baltimore County. (And I won't even get into the Montgomery County monopoly...)