Diana Krall Likes Edmunds-St. John Reds

[David M. Bueker]

At any rate, I wonder if Mr. Costello drinks a little better...

What if that wine list essentially reflects the tastes of her musicians? I it no secret that Athony Wilson (the Guitar guy) has participated on e-bob, so what do you expect?

I cann't quite picture Elvis Costello sipping Riesling...

Peter

True. But I shall remain shocked and horrified... [Sorry, I hit "Submit" before finishing my sentence:] Also, should I feel any better about the lot of them being pointy people?

They're only pointy if they actually read and slavishly follow pointy mags (at least Ms. Krall's rider doesn't specify copies of the Wine Spectator or Wine Advocate).

Of course there's the whole debate about points and pointiness: if I bought the 2005 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Himmelriech Riesling Auslese 'Schmitt' in November 2006 (which I did - in quantity), and it received 96 points from Mr. Schildknecht in the Wine Advocate in April (which it did), does that make me a pointy person? I think not. Most of the non-Bodeaux/Rhone ratings come too late to get a jump on buying anyway, so it's very hard to be pointy, except for the supreme point wines.

Also, should I feel any better about the lot of them being pointy people?

I wasn't trying to make you feel better, Manuel, as much as I approve of the intention...

But let's return to your shock & horror. Did you immediately after starting to drink wine show that immaculately good taste that you show now, or did it take some time to develop a sense for the genuine quality vs the stuff made to impress? How many bottles did it take, and how much guidance? Maybe excellent musicians are capable of great taste in the area of wine, but maybe they had not enough time & guidance to get there yet? Then again, maybe they just don't find wine quite interesting enough to make the kind of progress we are hoping for...

Peter

I cann't quite picture Elvis Costello sipping Riesling...

Somehow, he's always seemed to me more like a pint of bitter or pint of Guinness kind of guy. On the other hand, he's certainly mellowed in his middle age, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's developed a taste for the grape. Given that his musical choices have become so eclectic, that might also be the case with his choices in drink....

... if I bought the 2005 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Himmelriech Riesling Auslese 'Schmitt' in November 2006 (which I did - in quantity), and it received 96 points from Mr. Schildknecht in the Wine Advocate in April (which it did), does that make me a pointy person? I think not...

You clearly acted on a hot insider tip here. That is worse than honest speculation.

Peter

Somehow, he's always seemed to me more like a pint of bitter or pint of Guinness kind of guy. On the other hand, he's certainly mellowed in his middle age, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's developed a taste for the grape. Given that his musical choices have become so eclectic, that might also be the case with his choices in drink....

Right. I'm confident he has taste in whatever he pursuits. It's just that Riesling requires a sense for lightness that hasn't been Mr. Costello's trademark, mellowed or not...

Peter

Also, should I feel any better about the lot of them being pointy people?

I wasn't trying to make you feel better, Manuel, as much as I approve of the intention...

But let's return to your shock & horror. Did you immediately after starting to drink wine show that immaculately good taste that you show now, or did it take some time to develop a sense for the genuine quality vs the stuff made to impress? How many bottles did it take, and how much guidance? Maybe excellent musicians are capable of great taste in the area of wine, but maybe they had not enough time & guidance to get there yet? Then again, maybe they just don't find wine quite interesting enough to make the kind of progress we are hoping for...

Peter

Touché, my friend, touché. And now we're back to that "not scaring the newbies" thing again, aren't we?

In reality, I came into wine at a time that, retrospectively, seems a lot healthier than the present. My first wine experiences were with classic Riojas (mostly Riscal) and a couple of equally classic clarets. And then I went and fell in with a crowd that advocated California wines (mind you, this was the mid '80s), most of which back then were definitely wines and not the ridiculous concoctions of today. I spent a lot of time drinking stuff from California, and also fell for some of the new-style Spanish stuff (I remember when I was a fan of Pesquera and Mauro; but they were different wines...) So yes, I've been guilty of a few questionable turns along the road. Still, and those of you who have seen me on the various incarnations of the WLDG since 1997-1998, know htat the nickname "The Latin Liquidator" is one I earn... Very little patience for spoofulated crap plays a large part in the earning. Always been that way.

...Still, and those of you who have seen me on the various incarnations of the WLDG since 1997-1998, know htat the nickname "The Latin Liquidator" is one I earn... Very little patience for spoofulated crap plays a large part in the earning. Always been that way.

And I for one am glad to see the beast come out from time to time and reassert its presence. I know I cannot provide for the same excitement, and very few can.

Peter

Of course there's the whole debate about points and pointiness: if I bought the 2005 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Himmelriech Riesling Auslese 'Schmitt' in November 2006 (which I did - in quantity), and it received 96 points from Mr. Schildknecht in the Wine Advocate in April (which it did), does that make me a pointy person?

(1) Schildknecht is Schildknecht, a man of knowledge and taste, with impeccable demeanor, as far as my contact with him has shown me. I often wonder about what made him accept work with the Parker enterprise. Alas, he brings a level of real wisdom that almost makes The Wine Advocate worth reading every once in a while. If only one could subscribe to only his part of the rag, I'd definitely think about it.

(2) No, this purchase fo a wine that went pointy doesn't make you a pointy person at all. You just had the foresight to buy a good wine that was highly thought of by, again, Schildknecht, who seems to me to use points only by obligation. Of course, you could be one of those of us who have bought a wine in quantity because we honestly liked it, only to find that, a few months later, Parker or the Speculator were giving it a jillion points. The ensuing existential crisis is something to behold... One's not only screwed out of replenishing stocks at a decent price (assuming the original price was decent), but also screwed into a lot of doubt and depression...

I'm enjoying this thread. (First typed "threat"--Freudian slip) I'm going to stick my neck out and defend some of the choices in addition to Edmunds St. John and Tempier (I'm not familiar with Maculan).

Saintsbury--some nice Pinot Noirs
I no longer buy Henry's Drive Shiraz or Parson Flats but I still like Henry's Drive Cabernet Sauvignon.
Shafer has a good reputation for Cabernet Sauvignon.
Falesco Merlot can be a good quaffer.
Calera Pinot Noir--nice selection. Elegant style.
I hear many good things about Patricia Green Pinot Noir from Oregon but haven't had any yet.
Merryvale Cabernet Sauvignon--probably dependent on the vintage. The 1997 was very good.
Ridge--many on this forum are Ridge fans including me.
Gary Farrell-some nice Russian River Valley Pinot Noir including grapes from Allen and Rochioli Vineyards.
Landmark Chardonnay--may be moving to a less oaky style.
Chalk Hill Chardonnay--lack personal experience with this but it has a reputation for aging well.

What are the odds that she's even tried a Huet or Lopez de Heredia?

But seriously, Mark... Why must it be that every time I object to a wine selection I get the name "López de Heredia" thrown back at me?

Beats me, Manuel. I just pulled that name out of my you-know-what for rhetorical purposes. It could just as easily been J-P Brun. Sorry if I inadvertently touched a nerve, either with that comment or the naïve jibe. FWIW, I find that Eliot's less-than-savory views come through in much of his writing, too. I can't say that either his or Pound's work moves me, but of course de gustibus.

Mark Lipton

I think David Bueker probably has it correct that she likes a glass of wine AFTER the show. One bottle+ six glasses=one glass to unwind after a performance.

Sorry if I inadvertently touched a nerve, either with that comment or the naïve jibe. FWIW, I find that Eliot's less-than-savory views come through in much of his writing, too. I can't say that either his or Pound's work moves me, but of course de gustibus.

Mark Lipton

No nerves touched, really... It's just that López de Heredia has been associated with me every time there's some sort of discussion of one style versus another and I'm kinda bored. Jean-Paul would have been better, yes.

I have a feeling my views on Pound were colored by some improbably boring lecturers at various universities. Eliot, on the other hand, I found on my own when I was very young. Hell, for some reason, Pound got lumped with Panofsky in my book... Now you're making me feel like I should go back and reread all of them, just to reassess in my old age.

FWIW, I do identify with one part of Diana Krall's requirements. Her twins and mine take the same fine formula...

David,

Since the thread has gone heavily to the "FWIW" side of things, and considering the tag line below your signature, and speaking of musicians, I heard or read someplace that Alex Lifeson (of Rush, of course) is an avid wine lover. I mght have also read that he was into the California stuff. Or Châteauneuf. Or something else I wouldn't go near...

The "basic" Palacios Bierzo, called "Pétalos del Bierzo" wins the LL Grand Award for the fastest trip south in recent memory, being a very nice, light, pure expression of Mencía on the 2004 vintage and a full-on spoofulated soupish jam (or is it jammish soup?) in 2005.

BTW, Manuel, amidst all the mud-slinging I had meant to thank you for that observation. I had the Pétalos on my "seek out some day to try" list, but it is herewith removed. Perhaps Álvaro Palacios was concerned about his name being associated with a wine that tasted of *gasp* grapes?

Mark Lipton

p.s. I hadn't realized that the direction to the Dark Side was south. Thanks for that tip, too!

[David M. Bueker]

David,

Since the thread has gone heavily to the "FWIW" side of things, and considering the tag line below your signature, and speaking of musicians, I heard or read someplace that Alex Lifeson (of Rush, of course) is an avid wine lover. I mght have also read that he was into the California stuff. Or Châteauneuf. Or something else I wouldn't go near...

Yes, but Geddy Lee is a huge Burgundy fan.

Mark,

I was shocked by the style of the 2005 Pétalos. I had even liked that wine in its rather hefty (by comparison to 2004 or 2002) 2003 version. But the '05 was a completely different beast, fat, jammy and soupy-feeling. As it's said in the magazines: "Tasted twice with consistent results" (I have one bottle left: I bought 3 M%$#@%$#$&ing bottles on the strength of the '04...)

Something definitely worth trying from Bierzo is from a notorious wood-abuser who, strangely enough, decided to make a US-only inox cuvée. I'm talking about the 2004 Dominio de Tares, "Albares", Bierzo. Beautiful stuff at $8ish.

Oh, and I see no mud here... Where's the mud?

David,

Since the thread has gone heavily to the "FWIW" side of things, and considering the tag line below your signature, and speaking of musicians, I heard or read someplace that Alex Lifeson (of Rush, of course) is an avid wine lover. I mght have also read that he was into the California stuff. Or Châteauneuf. Or something else I wouldn't go near...

Yes, but Geddy Lee is a huge Burgundy fan.

Really? Cool!

[David M. Bueker]

David,

Since the thread has gone heavily to the "FWIW" side of things, and considering the tag line below your signature, and speaking of musicians, I heard or read someplace that Alex Lifeson (of Rush, of course) is an avid wine lover. I mght have also read that he was into the California stuff. Or Châteauneuf. Or something else I wouldn't go near...

Yes, but Geddy Lee is a huge Burgundy fan.

Really? Cool!

Yep. Apparently he was in Macarthur's a few weeks ago to pick up some Burgs while on tour.

Mark,

I was shocked by the style of the 2005 Pétalos. I had even liked that wine in its rather hefty (by comparison to 2004 or 2002) 2003 version. But the '05 was a completely different beast, fat, jammy and soupy-feeling. As it's said in the magazines: "Tasted twice with consistent results" (I have one bottle left: I bought 3 M%$#@%$#$&ing bottles on the strength of the '04...)

I can well imagine the shock. At least with Ridge, we got a gradual shift of style.

Something definitely worth trying from Bierzo is from a notorious wood-abuser who, strangely enough, decided to make a US-only inox cuvée. I'm talking about the 2004 Dominio de Tares, "Albares", Bierzo. Beautiful stuff at $8ish.

Thanks again. Bierzo is pretty hard to find here in flyover country, but I'll look for it when next putting together a CARE package.

Oh, and I see no mud here... Where's the mud?

You see, there's the value of parenthood. After a few months of changing diapers, mud seems downright wholesome and hygienic. Of course, at age 2, you have to rethink that again when mud becomes an additional epidermis for boys.

Mark Lipton

Mark,

The only place I've found this Albares is at PJs. They have the '04, though I suspect the current release is something more like '05 or '06. I had tasted the more "luxe" cuvées from Dominio de Tares and, when I ordered this Albares just as a case-filler, I was so pleasantly surprised I ordered a whole case of it the day after I tried it. It's dnoe in 100% stainless and, that way, Mencía is a revelation. I have a feeling that, though it can handle some oak, it's easily overwhelmed.

Parenthood changes many things. If you had said there was baby shit being slung, then I would have understood...

I'm confident he has taste in whatever he pursues.

Agreed. I think he's bloody brilliant as the Brits mights say. I've seen him perform many times, most recently a fantastic show with Emmylou Harris.

It's just that Riesling requires a sense for lightness that hasn't been Mr. Costello's trademark, mellowed or not...

True, but then again, he also has a finely-honed sense of irony.

Somehow, he's always seemed to me more like a pint of bitter or pint of Guinness kind of guy. On the other hand, he's certainly mellowed in his middle age, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's developed a taste for the grape. Given that his musical choices have become so eclectic, that might also be the case with his choices in drink....

He has been doing a lot of Burt Bacharach lately, so I see no problem with riesling.