The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

July (AND August!) Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Rahsaan » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:08 pm

Robin Garr wrote: I agree that acidic "cut" helps a wine last. I wonder if there isn't something more, though. I can think of other acidic whites that fade fairly fast and don't evolve.


Sure, acidity alone is not enough. But once we limit the conversation to the serious noble varieties, then riesling starts to stand out.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35692

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by David M. Bueker » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:05 pm

I wonder if Riesling generally has more dry extract than other whites.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Rahsaan » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:47 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I wonder if Riesling generally has more dry extract than other whites.


German riesling too? I'm not much of a technical guy, although I can see the richer Austrian rieslings having more dry extract. But German riesling often seems lighter in body and frame.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

94 Willi Haag

by Rahsaan » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:51 pm

Speaking of aging riesling, the 1994 Willi Haag Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Auslese was a tasty golden sweet tangy fresh drop of drink. The golden maturity is rounding off the edges, but it's also still plenty light and fresh in the mouth, and it has plenty of sweet verve still left. All in all, it is a nice showing (for modest expectations). Nothing profound, but works well as a nice fresh start to the evening.
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:10 pm

Good one Rahsaan, find this in Berlin?
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35692

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by David M. Bueker » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:21 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:I wonder if Riesling generally has more dry extract than other whites.


German riesling too? I'm not much of a technical guy, although I can see the richer Austrian rieslings having more dry extract. But German riesling often seems lighter in body and frame.


Some vintages have quite a lot.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Rahsaan » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:24 am

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:Good one Rahsaan, find this in Berlin?


Indeed.
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:31 am

Rahsaan, Martin and Lars have mentioned that most German wine drinkers prefer the drier style. Is this reflected on the shelves?
no avatar
User

Timo Olavi

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

39

Joined

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:13 pm

Location

Helsinki

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Timo Olavi » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:35 am

What I've had in the last couple months (living in Rheingau certainly has its perks!!).

2012 St. Urbans-Hof Ockfener Bockstein Riesling GG - Just pure joy to drink. Surprisingly non-serious for a GG but not at all lacking in complexity, depth and precision. An abundance of green and yellow fruits plus floral notes. Perfect balance of fruit and acidity.

2013 Staffelter Hof Riesling Old School - Trocken but 10.5% alcohol. Lean and mean but not green, very refreshing on a hot summer day.

2013 Weingut Spreitzer Oestricher Lenchen Riesling Spätlese 303 - More like an Auslese, quite sweet and fat but with good acidity. Unsurprising but not boring.

2013 Selbach Riesling Blauschiefer trocken - Quite intense and complex for entry-level. Delicious, juicy peaches and apples with some citrus and that 2013 laser-precision acidity.

2002 Martin Müllen Kinheimer Rosenberg Riesling Kabinett - Ridiculously good QPR at 15€ (from the winery). Petrol, fruit, sugar, acidity all in perfect balance. Light on its feet like a proper Kabinett should. Uncomplicated yet complex enough. Beautiful wine.

1966 August E. Anheuser Kreuznacher Narrenkappe Riesling feine Spätlese - Profound. No fruit left, replaced with an abundance of petrol and other tertiary notes of earth/soil. Only the tiniest hint of sweetness left after 50 years, but still has that luxurious mouthfeel from the sugar coupled with great clean acidity. Feels like an incredible privilege to have drank this piece of history.

2011 Staffelter Hof Dhroner Hofberger Riesling GeGe Spätlese ¾ - "¾ Trocken" meaning 11g/L RS, so maybe this one should've been called E-Ge instead of Ge-Ge ;) The sugar is what makes this wine. I would love to see more big/concentrated halbtrocken/feinherb Rieslings instead of always the same old austere GGs. Juicy fruit confit and substantial depth and complexity. Joyous wine!

2015 Weingut Clemens Busch Pündericher Riesling Kabinett - Incredibly juicy in the mouth due to the massive amounts of estery fruit, residual sugar and leftover CO2. Quite possibly the most fun wine i've ever drank in my life!

1990 Balthasar Ress Rüdesheimer Berg Schloßberg Riesling Spätlese - Should have probably been drunk 5-10 years ago. Not much fruit left but tertiary aromas have not fully developed either (and might never develop). Petrol nose, high acidity, slightly disharmonious.

2012 Vols Saarburger Fuchs Riesling - Super stinky, to the point where I think might have even been a problem with H2S or mercaptans. Some shy fruit peeked from behind the stink when decanted and swirled vigorously, but did not offer much pleasure. Probably cellaring wouldn't lead to an amazing wine either as it doesn't really have the prerequisite sugar and stuffing. Shame.

2015 A.J. Adam Hofberg Riesling Kabinett - Almost as juicy as the Clemens Busch Pünderich Kabinett. Fruity and floral, sweet and sour. Refreshing and delicious!

2013 Weingut Battenfeld-Spanier Mölsheim Riesling trocken - Laser-sharp. Perfect balance. Beautiful yellow fruits and white flowers. Beautiful complexity, depth and precision. Says "Beautiful Rheinhessen" on the back label. Damn right.

2015 A.J. Adam Riesling in der Sängerei Feinherb - A "serious" feinherb. Great concentration and complexity. Sugar is barely noticable even though it has ~25g/L RS. Peaches, red and green apples and some slight tropical hints. Terrific.

1999 Rudolf Fürst Centgrafenberg Riesling Auslese - A very curious nose of slight petrol, banana and caramel, this was an odd one. Acidity didn't quite keep up with the sweetness either. Interesting experience but certainly not what I was expecting!

2013 Weingut Spreitzer Oestricher Lenchen Rosengarten Riesling Großes Gewächs - Candied/candy-fruit with some floral touches. Perfectly nice but lacked some precision.

2012 Schäfer-Fröhlich Bockenauer Felseneck Riesling Großes Gewächs - Had very high expectations for this one. Slightly savoury with quite restrained fruit. Incredibly complex and long but in an austere way. I can certainly appreciate the craft and attention required to achieve this level of quality but in the end it's just not something I would buy again.

2013 Staffelter Hof Kröver Steffensberg Riesling Kabinett - Quite thick sponti in the nose. Had it in the fridge for a week after opening, but didn't blow off. Gentle, soft wine, and not in the bad way. Might develop into something nice if the sponti ever calms down.

2015 Willi Haag Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Riesling Kabinett - Another one of the juicy 2015 Kabinetten! Rather simple and lacking in depth when compared to Clemens Busch and A.J. Adam but still a lot of fun!

2015 Weingut von Othegraven Wiltingen Kupp Riesling Kabinett - Very stinky with sponti, but incredibly intensely juicy and fruity on the palate. Nice depth and complexity, would be so delicious without the stink. Leave and forget in the cellar.

2013 Weingut Clemens Busch Riesling Vom Blauen Schiefer - A tremendous addition to their existing grauen and roten schiefer bottlings, being a rather more serious wine. Quite concentrated but with a restrained elegance. Ripe fruit with saline touches.

2015 Emrich-Schönleber Monzinger Riesling Kabinett - More gentle than the other 2015 Kabinetten. Plenty of ripe fruit and flowers but not quite as intense on the palate. One for the cellar maybe.

1991 Schloss Vollrads Riesling Kabinett Blaugold - Green apples, citrus and petrol. Sweetness has faded completely. Would have probably been much more enjoyable 5 or 10 years ago, now comes across as rather austere.

1989 Kerpen Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Eiswein - Seamless nose of petrol and tropical fruit. Great intensity, not overtly sweet. Simply beautiful!
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Rahsaan » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:38 am

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:Rahsaan, Martin and Lars have mentioned that most German wine drinkers prefer the drier style. Is this reflected on the shelves?


Yes.

And in Germany there is also less of a focus on riesling as the main/only German grape, so you tend to get a lot of weissburgunder and grauburgunder as well, plus a smattering of other grapes.
Last edited by Rahsaan on Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Rahsaan » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:41 am

Timo Olavi wrote:What I've had in the last couple months (living in Rheingau certainly has its perks!!).


Nice list!

Timo Olavi wrote:2015 Weingut Clemens Busch Pündericher Riesling Kabinett...Quite possibly the most fun wine i've ever drank in my life!


Sounds great, and I see you did compare it to a few other 2015 wines. But I often feel that way about the brand new German rieslings. Until I drink the next one!
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:29 pm

Great list, great read. Bravo!
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35692

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by David M. Bueker » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:45 pm

Timo,

Really nice notes. I was happy to see the Anheuser note. A dear friend of mine still has a stash of older Anheuser bottles. It's fun to look at German wine history through those bottles.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Joe Moryl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

980

Joined

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Location

New Jersey, USA

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Joe Moryl » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:37 am

David M. Bueker wrote:
Rahsaan wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:I wonder if Riesling generally has more dry extract than other whites.


German riesling too? I'm not much of a technical guy, although I can see the richer Austrian rieslings having more dry extract. But German riesling often seems lighter in body and frame.


Some vintages have quite a lot.


Without consulting the literature, I'm guessing that German Rieslings, because of their high acidity, have a lot of dry extract because of all the salts of tartaric, malic and other organic acids that are left when the liquid is removed. This is what forms the 'wine crystals' that one sometimes sees on the cork. I wouldn't read too much into the level of dry extract being a measure of quality.

Oh, and Timo: great notes.
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:18 pm

TN: 2009 Leeuwin Estate Riesling Art Series, Margaret River Aus.

SC, cellared 4yrs but hard to find these days. Light lemon green in color, no sign of any gold. Good varietal character on the nose-citrus, mineral, hint of petrol, "did I detect a smoke hint" from across the table.
Initial entry thought is dry, still lively acidity but finish seems to tail off early. Pear, citrus, thought nose showed more character than the palate early on? Not too complex, might have shown its best say 2 years ago. No honeyed notes but did show some residual sugar on day 2. Have to agree with the mention of slate minerality I noticed on some CT notes.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35692

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:28 pm

2011 Dönnhoff Norheimer Kirschheck Riesling Spätlese - Germany, Nahe (7/10/2016)
This has really slimmed down since release, and now shows bright peach and cherry fruit with a kick of acidity on the back end that brightens up everything. It's still crazy young of course, but it has zero of the heaviness that plagues some 2011s. Lip-smacking good.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Victorwine

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2031

Joined

Thu May 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Victorwine » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:50 pm

Wine without dry extract is just water and alcohol. The more flavorful a wine is generally the higher the dry extract content is.

Timo, Thanks for sharing those TN

Salute
no avatar
User

Joe Moryl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

980

Joined

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Location

New Jersey, USA

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Joe Moryl » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:25 pm

2010 Ravines Dry Riesling, Finger Lakes, NY:
Usually one of the better dry Rieslings from the Finger Lakes, this still looks quite young: just a light silvery bronze. Maybe showing a bit more maturity on the nose, with light touches of the classic 'petrol' and bean bag chair. Mid bodied on the palate, with some limey fruit, and hints of something herbal (rosemary, oregano, pine?) and a nice slatey finish. This was pretty restrained when first taken out of the fridge, but blossoms with some time in the glass. The label claims this is 13.5% abv, but I would never guess this.
Good wine that has developed nicely.
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:24 pm

Hi Joe..know the name Ravines but we only have Fox Run up here.
no avatar
User

Joe Moryl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

980

Joined

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Location

New Jersey, USA

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Joe Moryl » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:21 am

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:Hi Joe..know the name Ravines but we only have Fox Run up here.


I'm even surprised you even have Fox Run, as most of the FL wineries are small to medium in size and have limited distribution. You might give it a try if the price is right; they can make some nice wines, but they are not one of my favorites in the region.
no avatar
User

John S

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1164

Joined

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:12 am

Location

British Columbia

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by John S » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:52 pm

I just copied these two notes from a recent longer entry to highlight two rieslings from British Columbia, as I imagine many people haven't seen any notes from BC rieslings. This producer focuses on rieslings, making 5-6 different versions each year (some cab franc too). They are pretty new to the scene (I think 2012 was their first vintage), using mainly young vine sources. Both were really young, but had an interesting sweet/sour thing going on. Lots of acidity, but some sweetness to the fruit too. All very low alcohol (about 10%). Fairly simplistic right now, and I don't know if that is due to the young vines or the recent vintage. These were certainly well made and interesting though - Stuart Piggott seemed to enjoy them too (http://www.stuartpigott.de/?s=synchromesh).

I have to say I tend to enjoy the Ontario rieslings more, as the limestone they are planted on really comes out in the wine to provide a great minerality. The vines are often older too, which helps. But there are certainly a few good BC riesling producers (e.g., Tantalus). Synchromesh is certainly worth keeping an eye on.

2015 Synchromesh Riesling Thorny Vines Vineyard - Canada, British Columbia, Okanagan Valley (2016-06-23)
Another impressive riesling from Synchromesh. An interesting sweet and sour mix of flavours here, with a sweet entrance but a fairly dry finish. Mainly in the citrus fruit spectrum, not very complex, but tasty. Still young, of course. (B+)

2015 Synchromesh Riesling Four Shadows Vineyard - Canada, British Columbia, Okanagan Valley (2016-06-13)
Heard the hype for this producer's rieslings, so I thought I'd give one a try. Very interesting. I didn't take notes, but this was an off dry wine that had a range of citrus and stonefruit flavours. The flavours were a little simplistic on the medium-bodied palate, but the acidity provided nice intensity to the wine. I'd say this is similar to a kabinett in style, though less rich than German reislings, and without the minerality of the best Ontario rieslings. But it was certainly a tasty, interesting wine. (B+)
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8840

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Paul Winalski » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:00 pm

Tim York wrote:Burgundy GCs name only vineyard but there is only one Chambertin, Musigny, La Tâche........AFIK


Except that in some cases adjacent grands crus were permitted to attach the famous name to their own. Even worse, so were the villages AOCs. So we have Griotte-Chamberftin, Charmes-Chambertin, and Latricieres-Chambertin, and Batard-Montrachet, Chevalier-Montrachet, Bienvenues-Batard-Montrachet, and Criots-Batard-Montrachet, all grands crus. And Gevrey-Chambertin, Puligny-Montrachet, and Chassagne-Montrachet, all villages appellations. So how is the consumer to know that Gevrey-Chambertin is a villages AOC whereas Charmes-Chambertin is a grand cru? You can't tell by the form of the name.

Germany has the same problem with single vineyards vs. Grosslagen. And they just made it a lot worse with Grosse Lagen (the equivalent of French grands crus) vs. Grosslagen. They could hardly have made it more confusing to the non-German consumer if they deliberately tried.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Rahsaan » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:50 pm

Paul Winalski wrote: They could hardly have made it more confusing to the non-German consumer if they deliberately tried.

-Paul W.


Don't overestimate the knowledge of German wine consumers!
no avatar
User

win_fried

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

101

Joined

Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:13 am

Location

Cologne, Germany

TN: Bischöfliche WG Kaseler Nieschen Spätlese Feinherb 2010

by win_fried » Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:06 pm

Restrained fresh nose of exotic fruits with some diesel in the backyard.
On the palate citrus notes of lemon zest and bergamotte. Creamy mouthfeel supported by a pleasant minerality.
Perfect now, we will not know where it will be going as this was our last bottle. Perfect match for cod with ginger quinoa and a carrot cucumber salad with mint and cilantro.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amazonbot, Apple Bot, ClaudeBot, DotBot, Google AgentMatch and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign