Let's talk about Oak

You don't necessarily have to use industrial amounts, Rahsaan?

Besides, there are all sorts of trials..

Yes, thanks, I get your point. And I guess I have seen this occur in various ways (and in various amounts)..

The best winemakers, in my opinion, are those who constantly have all sorts of trials going on.

In some areas the winemakers do not do any great degree of experimentation because they have a product developed over decades or centuries and the expectation is that they will continue to make as close to the same thing as is possible given the vicissitudes of weather and the available materials.

That doesn't necessarily make them less than good winemakers.

Hoke didn't say it makes them less than good winemakers, he said in his opinion the best winemakers...

I don't think it makes a good winemaker any less good to do what you say some do, but it sure makes them closed to new discoveries that may make them even better winemakers.

I imagine they also find the conservative approach a tad boring at times. I've visited many chateaus in Bordeaux (incl. first growths) and discussed winemaking with the staff there and they often seemed to have a few barrels that they were playing around with, but I got the impression it was often for their own edification rather than being very likely to get incorporated into the regular process. Sort of like a GM plant manager building a hot rod in his spare time.

I imagine they also find the conservative approach a tad boring at times. I've visited many chateaus in Bordeaux (incl. first growths) and discussed winemaking with the staff there and they often seemed to have a few barrels that they were playing around with, but I got the impression it was often for their own edification rather than being very likely to get incorporated into the regular process. Sort of like a GM plant manager building a hot rod in his spare time.

...and then creating a Delorean (sp)!

The best winemakers, in my opinion, are those who constantly have all sorts of trials going on.

In some areas the winemakers do not do any great degree of experimentation because they have a product developed over decades or centuries and the expectation is that they will continue to make as close to the same thing as is possible given the vicissitudes of weather and the available materials.

That doesn't necessarily make them less than good winemakers.

I would agree with that statement, Bill.

However (you knew there was going to be a however, didn't you? ) I partially disagree as well. Even in the most entrenched and established of traditional wine regions, constant experimentation occurs and continues. They don't always talk about it, they seldom champion it, but it does happen, I can assure you.

Bordeaux, for instance? If you were to tell me that little in the way of trials and experimentation are going on, I'd respectfully disagree with you. I recently had two very distinguished Directeurs de Technique for two well established Bordeaux chateaux visit----and one of the more fascinating aspects of the visit was they were eager to explore and discuss techniques they were seeing from other places, other philosophies....and different trials and experiments they were engaged in.

Rhone? Lot going on there. Various areas of Spain that have existed for multiple centuries? Same.

Chablis, bastion of Chardonnay? Check into the diverging attitudes and styles that are emerging there. I'm not saying that either divergence is necessarily good, mind you, just saying that trials and experimentations are not dormant there.

Loire Valley? er, Nicolas Joly and biodynamics? Organic viticulture and organic winemaking?

Friuli and Slovenia? Radikon. Gravner.

Piedmont? Let's not even get into that region, there's so much to discuss and debate.

Tuscany? Ever heard of the Super Tuscans, Bill? How exactly do you think that happened?

Let's focus on one small area, Brunello di Montalcino. Wanna bet that trials and experimenation haven't gone on there, rather intensively of late? (Hint: I recently sat through a couple of intensive and informative seminars on the vast amounts of clonal research that has been conducted over the last several years. Also learned of the new approach to making grappa. And speaking of grappa, just tasted a brand new category from Nonino, called Agrumi, which is made out of various forms of honey. Had to be approved by the Italian authorities, as it constituted a new category. Came from some intensive long term trials by the Nonino family. There are now, as I understand it, seven various types of Agrumi brandy.)

Wonder how Amarone came to exist? Ever taste an Allegrini Palazzo?


Chile? Carmenere and 'true" sauvignon blanc, planted in the 'right' places. Argentina? Woo hoo.

Uruguay? You can get your Tannat in whatever of various styles you wish now.

South Africa? Check into the changes that have drastically changed the wine industry down there. Result of trial and experimentation.

And finally, even the most traditional and hidebound of winemakers, faithfully following formulas, has to be at least aware of what he/she is doing, and constantly looking for ways to improve what they are doing. It's the nature of humans to be inquisitive about these things. Very few winemakers I know---and I've been privileged enough to know quite a few, are rote in their professions.

I imagine they also find the conservative approach a tad boring at times. I've visited many chateaus in Bordeaux (incl. first growths) and discussed winemaking with the staff there and they often seemed to have a few barrels that they were playing around with, but I got the impression it was often for their own edification rather than being very likely to get incorporated into the regular process. Sort of like a GM plant manager building a hot rod in his spare time.

Bill, I did not mean to imply---and I don't believe I did, but I'll have to go back and look----that trial and experimentaion, or the results thereof, always ends up going into the regular process. Sometimes it does; sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it isn't intended to. It's part of what keeps a winemaker sharp and questing.

We make it a habit, with every winemaker (and even some non-winemakers we employ) to encourage them to do their own projects and experimental cuvees and trials. Keeps them from being bored, as you say.

And, seriously, we're always doing trials. As well as checking on development and maturation, and chemical levels and phenols, blahblahblah. Just did a trial on some older vintage chardonnays....blind...where we were checking variables. Proud to say I aced it! I'm old, but my palate still works occasionally.

Proposition:

Oak is the salt of the wine world.

Some foods/wines should have none.

Some foods/wines benefit from just the right amount added.

The substance is vastly over-used and the marketplace is rife with salt/oak heavy products because producers think that more is better and the consumer will be impressed and will buy the product.

Obviously not a perfect analogy (what is?) but an interesting one perhaps.

Proposition:

Oak is the salt of the wine world.

Some foods/wines should have none.

Some foods/wines benefit from just the right amount added.

The substance is vastly over-used and the marketplace is rife with salt/oak heavy products because producers think that more is better and the consumer will be impressed and will buy the product.

Obviously not a perfect analogy (what is?) but an interesting one perhaps.

I knew a winemaker who used to say that "sugar is the opiate of the masses--add more sugar to that wine..."