The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

July (AND August!) Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Bill Hooper

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2001

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:46 am

Location

McMinnville, OR

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bill Hooper » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:41 pm

Paul Winalski wrote:
Tim York wrote:Burgundy GCs name only vineyard but there is only one Chambertin, Musigny, La Tâche........AFIK


Except that in some cases adjacent grands crus were permitted to attach the famous name to their own. Even worse, so were the villages AOCs. So we have Griotte-Chamberftin, Charmes-Chambertin, and Latricieres-Chambertin, and Batard-Montrachet, Chevalier-Montrachet, Bienvenues-Batard-Montrachet, and Criots-Batard-Montrachet, all grands crus. And Gevrey-Chambertin, Puligny-Montrachet, and Chassagne-Montrachet, all villages appellations. So how is the consumer to know that Gevrey-Chambertin is a villages AOC whereas Charmes-Chambertin is a grand cru? You can't tell by the form of the name.

Germany has the same problem with single vineyards vs. Grosslagen. And they just made it a lot worse with Grosse Lagen (the equivalent of French grands crus) vs. Grosslagen. They could hardly have made it more confusing to the non-German consumer if they deliberately tried.

-Paul W.


Fortunately, Großlagen are rarely used on labels anymore except for the cheapest supermarket wines (<6€) while the Grand Cru (VDP Grosse Lage) start at +/- 30€ for Riesling/Spätburgunder and a little less for WB or Silvaner. In theory there is the possibility for a lot of confusion, but in reality it is a lot easier to surmise what you have even if you strictly go on price.

Cheers,
Bill
Wein schenkt Freude
ITB paetrawine.com
no avatar
User

Bill Hooper

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2001

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:46 am

Location

McMinnville, OR

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bill Hooper » Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:11 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I wonder if Riesling generally has more dry extract than other whites.


Riesling has greater potential to have more as total extract includes sugar, glycerin, tannin, pigment, minerals, nitrogen compounds and all acids outside of volatile. Factors that influence this would be weather during the growing season, soil-type (clays and Basalts help to build thicker skins with more extract potential), pressing methods (skin maceration will produce more extract than direct-pressing), and then of course the acidity and sugar add to it as well. So a higher-acid Auslese from Forster Jesuitengarten with a long pre-press skin maceration could have massive total-extract numbers. It varies from producer to producer and vintage to vintage, but since acid and sugar play such a big role Riesling has an edge on other whites (outside of Orange wines).

Cheers,
Bill
Wein schenkt Freude
ITB paetrawine.com
no avatar
User

David N

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

52

Joined

Thu May 01, 2008 11:49 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by David N » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:45 pm

Albert Mann Riesling Rosenberg 2004
I seldom buy the Rosenberg, preferring the Schlossberg from Albert Mann, but I bought both in the 2004 vintage.
The colour was a medium yellow. On the nose some typical petroleum notes, although fairly subdued.
The wine has lost some of it's fruit but has developed secondary flavours of dried apricot and lemon zest. Medium length on the finish.
Probably a bit past it's best but a very good accompaniment to Baccalat with fresh local peas.
On a RP like scale 88-89.
We will drink our last bottle soon as there doesn't appear to be any upside for this wine.
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:49 pm

Aaagh The Mann brothers. Visited twice in the early 2000s..they had some P Gris in barriques!!
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Saar

by Rahsaan » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:43 am

1990 von Hövel Scharzhofberger Auslese
More depth and breadth of body than the 99, but still far from a rich thick wine. Despite the golden color and character of the aged fruit, there is strong underlying metal iron, which perhaps will become increasingly present with each passing day/week/month/year as the fruit fades. Decent sipping aperitif wine, but pretty simple and no fireworks on the horizon.

1999 von Hövel Scharzhofberger Auslese *
Sweet juicy and simple. If I concentrate hard enough I can perhaps conjure up the herbal currant leaf delicacy that makes me think of Scharzhofberger, but I could also be fooling myself. Mostly just a decent sipping aperitif wine, with no fireworks on the horizon.

2011 von Othegraven Altenberg GG
Here we get some excitement from the first sip. Waxy yellow richness with apricot flesh, apricot juice, and firm rocky apricot pits to give tension and structure. As rich and powerful as the fruit is, it is always in the fresh racy Saar frame. More importantly, the length, elegance and perfume that reverberates in the mouth make this a gorgeous gorgeous joyous wine. Probably the most convincing Saar GG that I've had, although such a superlative probably doesn't mean much, since I have limited exposure to Saar GG!
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:59 am

Always find your notes of real interest Rahsaan. David has mentioned Saar in his many posts..I need to find out more about the wines from this part of the Mosel. Any pointers?
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4963

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Tim York » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:27 pm

Here are some notes on an entry level Alsace Riesling ( cost € 9,50) which I have been drinking over the last year or so.

2013 Louis Sipp Riesling - France, Alsace (2/2/2015)
A nice bone dry basic medium/light Riesling with citrus fruit, a sprinkling of spice, crisp acidity, grainy minerals and decent length. May consider a repeat purchase. Good.

1/29/2016
The driest Riesling I can recall since a Grosset. The sip before food seemed very acidic but it all came into balance and focus with a choucroute. Good and worth a repeat purchase.

7/15/2016
Now slightly softer and more fragrant. I'm not sure that I would identify this as Riesling blind.
Tim York
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Rahsaan » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:31 pm

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:David has mentioned Saar in his many posts..I need to find out more about the wines from this part of the Mosel. Any pointers?


As you probably know, Saar wines are similar to Mosel wines, but tend to be a bit racier brighter and leaner. I'm a huge fan, but that suits my preferences.

The big name is Egon Muller and his Scharzhofberger leads the pack cost-wise. But although the Saar is much smaller than the Mosel, there are plenty of other top Saar sites and producers (including this von Othegraven Kanzemer Altenberg). As always, it depends on what is available locally.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35692

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:46 am

2012 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Riesling Kabinett #3 - Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer (7/17/2016)
Shut down this is not! Crystalline purity from Schaefer again, though that should not be a surprise. There's lots of ripe tree fruit and a base of solid stone with an electrical wire running through the center of the wine. It's a bit muscular for kabinett, but that just means it will age longer and reward drinking for 2 decades at a minimum.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Lars Carlberg

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

171

Joined

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:15 pm

Location

Trier, Germany

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Lars Carlberg » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:32 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:David has mentioned Saar in his many posts..I need to find out more about the wines from this part of the Mosel. Any pointers?


As you probably know, Saar wines are similar to Mosel wines, but tend to be a bit racier brighter and leaner. I'm a huge fan, but that suits my preferences.

The big name is Egon Muller and his Scharzhofberger leads the pack cost-wise. But although the Saar is much smaller than the Mosel, there are plenty of other top Saar sites and producers (including this von Othegraven Kanzemer Altenberg). As always, it depends on what is available locally.


Vinous recently published "The Saar 2014: Stress for Success" by David Schildknecht. He includes succinct, well-written producer profiles with his tasting notes. I wrote an in-depth piece for The Art of Eating on the wines of the Saar and Mosel a couple of months ago.
no avatar
User

Fredrik L

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

739

Joined

Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:54 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Fredrik L » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:33 pm

Just back from Mosel and no time for in depth analysis, but save space in your cellar for the 2015s! Damned, they are fine! :D

Greetings from Sweden / Fredrik L
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

German natural wine

by Rahsaan » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:54 pm

Tonight at a local natural wine bar, I had a glass of 2015 R&R Trossen Schiferstern Riesling Pur’us, which is apparently one of Germany's contributors to the natural wine scene. It has a dose of ripe rippling 2015 fruit, but was marred for me by that textbook generic nutty apple natural wine oxidation. Although it was of course a fresh bottle. Blind I do not think I could have identified riesling, or the Mosel, or even Germany. But maybe that's on me. C'est la vie.
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:31 pm

Not your usual happy note there Rahsaan :lol: I have a nice 2012 Haart Piesporter open right now.
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4963

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Tim York » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:25 am

Paul Winalski wrote:
Tim York wrote:Burgundy GCs name only vineyard but there is only one Chambertin, Musigny, La Tâche........AFIK


Except that in some cases adjacent grands crus were permitted to attach the famous name to their own. Even worse, so were the villages AOCs. So we have Griotte-Chamberftin, Charmes-Chambertin, and Latricieres-Chambertin, and Batard-Montrachet, Chevalier-Montrachet, Bienvenues-Batard-Montrachet, and Criots-Batard-Montrachet, all grands crus. And Gevrey-Chambertin, Puligny-Montrachet, and Chassagne-Montrachet, all villages appellations. So how is the consumer to know that Gevrey-Chambertin is a villages AOC whereas Charmes-Chambertin is a grand cru? You can't tell by the form of the name.


-Paul W.


Fair comment, except that the label of, say, Criots-Bâtard-Montrachet carries the words "Grand Cru" while those of Puligny-Montracher and Chassagne-Montrachet do not. IIRC there is no similar easily visible help to distinguish einzellagen from grosslagen though QmP versus QbA in small print may give a clue.
Tim York
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35692

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by David M. Bueker » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:17 am

Actually Tim, the GG bottles are embossed (not to mention taller and heavy as heck) and many (all?) carry the letters GG or Grosses Gewachs on the labels.

If someone confuses a $5 Piesporter Michelsberg with a $60 Piesporter Goldtropfchen (note that they are different names by the way) then it's no different than neophytes who buy $40 Puligny-Montrachet and think they have purchased Montrachet that would cost $300.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8840

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Paul Winalski » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:52 pm

Thanks, Rahsaan, for the notes on the von Hoevel Sharzhofbergers. I opened a 2001 von Hoevel Sharzhofberger Riesling Spaetlese recently and it was lively and delicious. No hurry to drink it up.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4963

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Tim York » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:54 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Actually Tim, the GG bottles are embossed (not to mention taller and heavy as heck) and many (all?) carry the letters GG or Grosses Gewachs on the labels.

If someone confuses a $5 Piesporter Michelsberg with a $60 Piesporter Goldtropfchen (note that they are different names by the way) then it's no different than neophytes who buy $40 Puligny-Montrachet and think they have purchased Montrachet that would cost $300.


David, GG bottles are not the only ones bearing einzellage names. Most QmP grades do too and some QbAs as well but have the helpfulness to add the village.
Tim York
no avatar
User

Patchen Markell

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1114

Joined

Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:18 am

Location

Ithaca, New York

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Patchen Markell » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:48 am

Finally, I can make a contribution to the July theme! Last night, opened a Grosset 2002 Clare Valley Riesling, "Polish Hill." Remarkable: for the first hour or so that this bottle was open, I'd have guessed it was less than five years old. Still light in color, fresh with citrusy acidity, steely and mineral, very gradually opening to reveal some earthy complexity, citrus-rind, and pleasant whiffs of weed; not a hint of petrol. Delicious, though it could have taken decanting. I think this is still too young, and so I'm resolved not to touch my last bottle, or the small stash I have from the following two vintages, for several more years.

ADDENDUM: I meant to add that it occurred to me last night that this is probably the oldest wine I've ever opened from under screwcap. Has a consensus emerged about how screwcap closures affect aging, now that there's been time to amass experience?
cheers, Patchen
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35692

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by David M. Bueker » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:16 am

Tim York wrote:David, GG bottles are not the only ones bearing einzellage names. Most QmP grades do too and some QbAs as well but have the helpfulness to add the village.


Tim - the regular pradikat wines still have the village name. Some more stylish producers put it on the back label, but it is required to be somewhere*. Is turning the bottle around really so hard?




*Labeling laws across the globe are different, and because of that numerous producers treat the "front" label as an advertisement, and put all the required, gory details on the back (officially the front as far as regulators are concerned) label, which they change to suit the market and its laws. This is not a problem created by the Germans.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Jim Grow

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1261

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:31 am

Location

Rockbridge Ohio

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Jim Grow » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:26 pm

1995 Trimbach Cuvee Fredric Emile; given to me as a Christmas present many years ago, the second of two bottles. This bottle is perfectly sound with deep straw color and peach aromas. The flavors followed with a great balance of acids and fruit. Definitely not a sipping wine but a wine that would go great with garlic sautéed oysters or seared scallops. I'm glad this is the last of these wines as we have become more attuned to Kabinette style Rieslings with some rs and slightly less pronounced acidity. Still, this bottle is perfectly sound and may have 5-10 more years ahead but fruit may further decline and acidity increase. The previous bottle seemed more acid driven so this may be at it's peak now. I'll consume my non-Trimbach Alsatian Rieslings younger than older.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9637

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Dinner

by Rahsaan » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:20 pm

First was 1986 Maximin Grünhaus Herrenberg Kabinett, which was a lovely match with a cucumber salad lightly topped with a feta-based dressing. The wine may have tilted a bit sour and simple, but there was still some underlying structural integrity and it was a nice way to dance some wine across the tongue and get everybody settled in for the evening.

Things changed when we moved to the 2009 Koehler-Ruprecht Kallstadter Saumagen Spätlese Trocken 'R'. The wine makes quite an impression with its chewy thick texture, but there is also a streak of lightness and airiness floating through the wine. I couldn't even begin to analyze all the flavors, but there were plenty. It was a great match with my Baltic salmon, chanterelles and semmelknödel. (And yes I want to drink more of this, soon!)

Finally, the crowd wanted a liquid dessert, and who was I to protest. A nice bottle of 2009 Haart Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Auslese was sweet but juicy, and felt 'fresh' after the KR. This was the biggest crowd pleaser among a table of non-geeks. But regardless of favorites, we were all happy.
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4963

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Tim York » Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:03 pm

Luxembourg’s neighbours affect to despise its efforts with wine but I’ve usually found them, mainly from Alsatian grape varieties, to be well made and often good QPR though rarely remarkable. So, when passing through Brussels last weekend, I took the opportunity of picking this one up along with one or two others which I can’t find in France. I had misgivings about the wine’s health after a 5 hour journey in a car without air conditioning on a very warm day but it seems to have turned out OK although the slight prickle may have been enhanced by the heat.

2012 Domaines de Vinsmoselle Riesling Grand Premier Cru Wintrange Felsberg - Luxembourg, Moselle, Moselle Luxembourgeoise (7/23/2016)
A pleasant easy drinking quite dry Riesling with a subdued nose and medium/light bodied palate showing white fruit, white flower fragrance, petrol hints, decent acidity, some saline backbone and slight but visible prickle. Not a lot of excitement or nervous tension but easy to finish bottle at 12% alcohol. Good QPR at promotion price of €8.
Image
Posted from CellarTracker
Tim York
no avatar
User

Carl Eppig

Rank

Our Maine man

Posts

4149

Joined

Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:38 pm

Location

Middleton, NH, USA

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Carl Eppig » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:50 pm

2014 Knapp Finger Lakes Riesling, matched with crab cakes, peas, and baguette. This bright flavorful Riesling with lots of fruit has a clean start with a mild sweetness and finishes with a hint of citrus. Went perfectly with this dinner. Yum!
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10855

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: July Wine Focus: Riesling Around the World

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:57 pm

Good call Carl, always keen to read a TN about any wine from Finger Lakes. Rahsaan kindly posted on a Piesporter from Haart, wonder if the same producer as this one here>>>

TN: 2012 Weingut Joh. Haart Piesporter Goldtropfchen Riesling Kabinett, M-S-R.

Last year, I picked up a couple of Spatlese from Haart but found this discounted for $17.00 Cdn only the other day. Good natural cork, 8% alc, AP finishes 07-13. I noted the number 113 on the cork??
I was told by the store owner who was just back from Germany that Joh. Haart had retired and that no family was interested in running the weingut.
Light yellow color, no gasolein on the nose but tropical fruits, pineapple, peach. Clean, crisp refreshing, nothing too complicated, easy drinking, some might say "too sweet" but with some stir fry, spot on.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amazonbot, ClaudeBot, FB-extagent, Google AgentMatch, SemrushBot, td bot and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign