Let`s talk acidity!!

Last night I opened an Albarino from Spain and could not believe the high acidity. At least, in my mind, the acidity was high just like in a Muscadet for example.
This is not a big critical comment but it seems I appreciate the acidity levels in red wines better. Sure I am a regular white wine drinker but feel a good discussion here could be helpful. Quite a few times, in my local wine store, I have mentioned "this wine lacks acidity" and get lots of disagreement! Maybe its me, my perception? I always read that grapes grown in warmer climates have lower acidity. That does not always appear to be true in my perception!

Any thoughts or comments forumites?

Last night I opened an Albarino from Spain and could not believe the high acidity. At least, in my mind, the acidity was high just like in a Muscadet for example.
This is not a big critical comment but it seems I appreciate the acidity levels in red wines better. Sure I am a regular white wine drinker but feel a good discussion here could be helpful. Quite a few times, in my local wine store, I have mentioned "this wine lacks acidity" and get lots of disagreement! Maybe its me, my perception? I always read that grapes grown in warmer climates have lower acidity. That does not always appear to be true in my perception!

Any thoughts or comments forumites?

Certainly, various people's preference for acidity varies greatly. Wines that I consider flabby others find "soft and velvety" and some wines that I find delineated and precise others may find "searingly acidic." As always, what you're eating with it (or whether you're eating with it) plays a huge role in your perception.

As for your red/white disparity, I'd say that I find just the opposite to you: I can tolerate lower acidity reds (Zin, S. Rhones) than I can low acid whites. I expect my whites to be crisp and zippy and really don't appreciate the dominant style of Chardonnay, or low acid varieties such as Gewurztraminer and Marsanne.

Mark Lipton

As for your red/white disparity, I'd say that I find just the opposite to you: I can tolerate lower acidity reds (Zin, S. Rhones) than I can low acid whites.

I think that my choice of words regarding red wines was not what I was trying to say!! I seem to understand acidity in red wine much better than some of the whites I tipple. Most of my TNs would appear to mention the acidity so questioning my own palate is what I am about here!
I checked some tasting notes over on cellar tracker,especially regarding the Senorans, and not many there seem to feel the way I do i.e. high acidity.
Maybe I should check some other notes here? Muscadet and Otto and Bill from Boston spring to mind... are they as sensitive as me?!

Hi Bob,
IIRC correctly there are two botlings of Senorans. One receives significantly more wood and tastes rounder. The other is certainly more acidic (I used to know how to tell them apart but just can't visualize the label right now). The lighter sells for around $20 and the other about double.
But even the lighter one seems to me to be more fruity than acidic - sort of like a Riesling kabinett in balance, although structurally quite different. I describe it as "pleasing acidity"!

This is a very interesting subject.

Clearly the degree to which people like or tolerate acidity is to some extent subjective. The same goes for bitter, salty and sweet tastes.

However, it seems to me that acidity and bitterness are acquired tastes whereas the taste for sweetness seems innate - e.g. recalcitrant infants can often be induced to eat by sweetening the food and few infants tolerate acidity and bitterness. Many people, maybe a majority in Britain and, I guess, the USA, never develop their taste away from an all-pervading sweetness, occasionally with a few dashes of salt.

Amongst serious food and wine lovers, taste has usually developed away from this primal quest for sweetness but clearly in this community there are persons of more or less sweet tooth, which accounts for why wines described by some as flabby are found by others to be soft and velvety and vice versa.

Perceptions of acid (and for that matter tannin and sugar) balance can be substantially altered by the accompanying food. For instance Albarino is probably best with shellfish, particularly sharp tasting "creuses" oysters; I found my Albarino a bit lacking in richness for the fish and sauce which I ate with it. But oysters with Meursault or Vouvray demi-sec would not be ideal either. In a similar way youngish tannic Bordeaux calls a good rare steak to bring it into balance.

I think that I have had as many unacceptably acidic reds as whites but often the tannins are also high in the former which may deflect some criticism.

Thanks Tim, that is quite a good summary for sure. Oh, I hasten to add that I do have a sweet tooth!! I do not think this thread is going to be all that controversial eh..hope it will develope! Am going to return to my Albarino with some shrimp in garlic herb butter so will see what changes I notice.

Found this interesting piece on Jamie Goode`s website.......................

http://www.wineanorak.com/acidity.htm

Bob, one of the things I especially like in a wine is what I jokingly call "Jolly Rancher" acidity. More often it is in a white wine, but I do sometimes find it in red wines too. I don't know if you know what Jolly Rancher is, but it is a kind of hard candy, fruit flavor, and pretty high in acid, sorta makes the mouth pucker and then the saliva thickens. Probably more than you wanted to know.

...As for your red/white disparity, I'd say that I find just the opposite to you: I can tolerate lower acidity reds (Zin, S. Rhones) than I can low acid whites. I expect my whites to be crisp and zippy and really don't appreciate the dominant style of Chardonnay, or low acid varieties such as Gewurztraminer and Marsanne.

Mark Lipton

When fresh grapes are crushed, winemakers usually test for Total Acidity (TA) by means of titration. Home winemaking textbooks recommend acid levels of 0.7 to 0.8 for whites and 0.55 to 0.65 for reds. Generally whites have higher acidity than reds.

Re: Jolly Rancher acidity

This reminds me of a lively conversation we had at Daniel Vollenweider's place in Traben-Trarbach. As the conversation took place mainly in German, in which I am not proficient, my understanding was somewhat hazy. Someone contended that there are different types of acidity which are detectable in measurement. There is an appealing "more-ish" acidity, which I think they called "buffer acidity", which is particularly to be prized; in the company present there was general assent to this notion. I do find the acidity in Mosel-S-R wines particularly appealing, if balanced by some RS, and this may be due to the type of acidity.

Peter Ruhrberg was present and if he reads this he can probably give a much better explanation of what was said.

In Germany for a wine to be classified (QmP- Trocken or Halbtrocken), besides having a maximum range of alcohol (Kabinett- 8 to 10.5%; Spâtlese- 10.5 to12.5%; Auslese- 11.5 to 14%) and given range of RS (Trocken- 0 to .9%; Halbtrocken- .9 to 1.8%) there is also restrictions on the levels of TA (Total Acidity), Trocken- minimum acid required .7%; Halbtrocken- minimum acid required .8%. For the “sweeter” (some people like to use the term “fruity”) versions (1.8 or higher % RS- where the “sweetness level” does not have to be designated on the label) there is no restrictions on TA.
In comparison to red wines, when evaluating white wines, I think things are a little simpler. The main reason is that because of a white wine’s low level of tannins, there is one less structural component to “evaluate” and one does not confuse acidity with tannin. Basically what you’re looking at is “fruitiness” (whether it is derived from the grape, by the action of yeast or bacteria during fermentation, or aging), RS, alcohol, and acidity. So if one perceives the wine as being “sharp”, one can conclude that the acidity is too “high”. But this also could mean that the wine is still to “young”, it is possible during some bottle aging, the components of the wine could come ‘together” nicely.

Salute

[David M. Bueker]

Those required acid levels are not actually required (or at least they are widely ignored) in Germany.