Do you think we should be looking at low-end `03 Bordeaux!

I guess depending where one lives but up here in Alberta, I can buy some recent releases for around $25 Cdn and many from Andre Lurton. Think it helps to pre-taste but not always possible eh.
Is anyone buying and are there any suggestions? I will put together what is available here asap.
I think that Dale has possibly opened a few with Betsy`s wonderful cooking??

I think it's definitely a vintage to taste before buying quantity. If you're looking for classically styled Bordeaux, you're out of luck. If you don't mind a lusher style, there are a lot of nice wines. In the lower end I've thought Vrai Canon Bouché (Canon-Fronsac, $10 US), Gloria (St Julien, $20), and Lilian Ladouys (St Estephe, $15) provided good value. Ones I didn't like offhand include Villars (Fronsac) and Andron Blanquet (Margaux).

Northern Medoc seems to be the strongest, though Fronsac seemingly did well. Graves, Margaux, and Pomerol had most problems from my limited sampling and discussions. There are some good St Emilions apparently on upper end, but none of the sub-$20 ones seem to have done well in the heat.

If you're lucky, you might still be able to find Pontet Canet in the $50-$70 range.

I'd buy a single bottle of that before I bought two or three bottles of random $20-$25 juice.

Another one that I seemed to remember enjoying was something from Margaux - gosh, I think it was Brane-Cantenac - which had some depth and some complexity and some aromatics.

But it's about $40.

Still, though, it would be a lot better than two random bottles of $20 juice.

Thanks Dale, as usual appreciate the insights. Think I might dabble in a couple of your suggestions.

Nathan, the prices for some of the higher end wines are very high up here and I am not sure I want to fork out that kinda cash. The old Liquor Board days are no longer here!! Guess I just keep my eye on tasting schedules around my area..and TNs posted here!!

IMHO, with very, very, very few exceptions, PASS.
Walt

Nathan, the prices for some of the higher end wines are very high up here and I am not sure I want to fork out that kinda cash. The old Liquor Board days are no longer here!! Guess I just keep my eye on tasting schedules around my area..and TNs posted here!!

That's the problem with purchasing your way through inventory to find what you're looking for.

By the time you've spent the money trying 3 or 4 of the "lesser" wines, it dawns on you that you're out the better part of $100 and you could have gone ahead and gotten a pretty darned nice 2nd or 3rd growth.

Free tastings are the bomb, but purchased tastings will bankrupt you.

Bob, I think you explained to me before how laws prevent New York retailers from shipping to you. Otherwise you could buy Sherry-Lehmann’s 2003 “Unsung Heroes” Bordeaux sampler: a mix of 12 different bottles from “lesser” appellations selected to be particularly good values at $150, or $160, for the case.

Unless you are totally calibrated to someone else’s palate, I don’t think it is easy to take anybody’s opinion as to whether a certain 2003 bottle is “good.” 2003s taste very different from any other Bordeaux year. I can’t even describe the taste, other than calling them somewhat, but not really, California-like, and red, rather than black. The unusual taste will always signal “hot” to me, after knowing to associate that particular, ripe taste with a very hot season in Bordeaux.

I have drunk maybe 30 different 2003s to date and only really liked the Lynch Moussas, which is a very good value, if you find out by your own tasting that you like that particular wine.

Covert

Otherwise you could buy Sherry-Lehmann’s 2003 “Unsung Heroes” Bordeaux sampler: a mix of 12 different bottles from “lesser” appellations selected to be particularly good values at $150, or $160, for the case.

Or spend the same amount of money and get two [or even three, if you're lucky] bottles of Pontet Canet.

[David M. Bueker]

If that's what people want Nathan. You already made your point, now move on. (posted by a man who bought half a dozen Pontet Canet, but also a few well-chosen bargain 2003s that are quite rewarding...)

I quite liked the 2003 Pontet Canet. But it certainly wouldn't please quite a few Bordeaux lovers, it's very fruit-forward/ California-esque. But in any case the idea that someone looking for $20 wines should buy $60+ wines because it's more of a sure thing is just ludicrous.

Telling someone that they are better off with a bottle of $60 than 3 $20 bottles:
1) totally ignores the idea of personal tastes
2) ignore peoples' comfort levels. Everyone has a level where they feel comfortable to spending on a single bottle for one dinner (and the possibility its spoiled through cork taint, heat damage, whatever).

But in any case the idea that someone looking for $20 wines should buy $60+ wines because it's more of a sure thing is just ludicrous.

What's "ludicrous" is this idea that we should be forced to PAY for the privilege of tasting through a whole mess of table wines, most of which we almost certainly won't particularly enjoy [but of course we won't know that until after we've experienced the misfortune of paying for our own displeasure].

Any wine retailer who isn't willing to put his money where his big, fat, lying mouth is, and open up his table wines and allow his customers to sample them, FOR FREE, is a fraud.

If you waste $150 to $160 on a sampler case from somebody, then while it's entirely possible that you might like many [or even all] of the wines in the case, it's far more likely that you won't like any of them [after all, if they were so darned wonderful in the first place, then in all likelihood they wouldn't still be lying around in the warehouse gathering dust.]

A Pontet Canet in the hand is worth three or four lousy table wines in the bush.

[David M. Bueker]

Nathan,

You are once again going off the conspiracy theory deep end that got you ostracized in the first place. For once realize that your personal sense of entitlement does not expand to the universe around you.

And as has been said, the 2003 Pontet Canet is a specific style of wine which does not suit everyone. Your personal tastes do not dictate people's questions. I for one would rather see the back of you (on all the forums), but I don't have the administrator powers. (There...I've said what many would like to but won't say.)

I certainly wasn't advocating buying the S-L case, my experiences with their picks/direct imports isn't too great. I've only bought one sampler case in my life, from Chrish "Hype is my middle name" Peel at Carolina Wine Company, and indeed most were garbage.

As I stated, 2003 is a vintage to taste before buying in quantity. And if someone's price threshold is $20, telling that someone to spend $60+ on the Pontet Canet is indeed ludicrous. Please name the wine that everyone likes. Tastes are individual, there is no sure thing.

I buy wines based on personal tasting when I can. When I can't, within my budget I buy based on:
1) previous experiences with the wine, and extrapolating from previous experiences with the vintage.
2) previous correlation with others' tastes. This might be a critic, it might be a retailer, it might be another amateur poster.
3) last and least importantly, facts and opinions from others.

At that price point I think you'd be better off with 2004 Bordeaux. Or with wine from another part of the world (hello, Spain).

I've only bought one sampler case in my life, from Chrish "Hype is my middle name" Peel at Carolina Wine Company, and indeed most were garbage.

If you lived in Raleigh, North Carolina, then you could get off your lazy ass and go down to the store every Saturday afternoon and taste 8 or 10 of ol' Hype is my middle name's wines FOR FREE.

Sometimes more - a couple of Saturdays ago, I sampled about 20 wines.

And if someone's price threshold is $20, telling that someone to spend $60+ on the Pontet Canet is indeed ludicrous.

Again, let me reiterate my point: There probably is a good 2003 Bordeaux table wine out there somewhere. Maybe it's $20, maybe it's $15, maybe it's $7.99.

The problem is that we don't know what wine it is, and searching for it is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

What I object to is this idea that we are supposed to PAY for the privilege of searching through the haystack; that each time we want to throw a dart at the dartboard - blindfolded, hoping against our best judgment that somehow the dart will magically hit paydirt - that each time we have to pony up $20 for the privilege.

A sampler case of $20 wines is going to run you $240 [before shipping & taxes], and I just have this vision of somebody spending several months working his way through such a case, only to get to the end and realize that he didn't really enjoy any of the wines all that much, and that for the same amount of money he could have picked up four of Pontet Canet or six of Brane Cantenac.

Besides, if this mythical, magical, reasonably priced Bordeaux table wine truly existed, and somehow managed to work its way through the American 3-tier system without doubling or trebling in price along the way, then I don't have any doubt that a Victor "Wine Hunter" Hong or a Jeff "La La" Leve would be screaming about it from the rooftops.

The very fact that nobody can seem to point to it and say, "This is what you're looking for" is pretty strong prima facie evidence that we're all stumbling around in the dark, searching for it like blind men.

If you lived in Raleigh, North Carolina

No offense, but I did my time -almost 20 years- in NC, no reason to go back (except possibly Allen and Sons BBQ). Plenty of stores in NY serving lots of wines every Sat (Th, Fri, and sometimes Sun, too). I agree free tastings are the way to go, but my impression is that's not an option for Bob. While no one knows whether they'll like a $20 Bdx till they try, they also don't know if they'll like the Pontet-Canet till they try it. .
It is indeed ludicrous to tell someone that the best option when they are looking at $20 wines is to spend $60+.

I'm not sure what Victor or Leve have to do with it. Neither posts here. Actually I think Victor is shouting about the '03 Grand Chenes, but I wasn't wowwed. People's tastes differ. Leve dislikes lots of wines I love. Chacun a son gout.

The very fact that nobody can seem to point to it and say, "This is what you're looking for"

Well, I did offer the Lillian Ladouys, Vrai Canon Bouche, etc as examples of $10 & $15 2003 Bordeaux that I liked. No, I didn't say "this is what you're looking for" because I don't know Bob's tastes tht well. Over the years I've read bad or lukewarm notes re the 1982 Mouton, 1990 Margaux, 1985 Cheval Blanc, etc etc etc - there is no way to guarantee another will like a wine (although you can make awfully good guesses if you have drunk together enough).

[David M. Bueker]

Back on point, I liked the 2003 Fontenil (I know..shock...horror...a Rolland wine) quite a lot for $22. I bought more.

I've had two experiences buying wine from Chrish Peel - both times he tried to talk me into buying one of his "deals" from a poor vintage from a particular producer when much better wine was available ('99 Catoir (perhaps their worst vintage of the late Schwarz era) instead of '98, and '98 Hirsch ('98 Austria was a tough, alcoholic year) as opposed to '99). I know enough about Germany & Austria to know when I am being sold a bag of goods.

I think a few of us here have made some really good valid points. I am not the big claret drinker/hoarder I used to be 20 yrs ago when the Liquor Board had a wonderful selection. From time to time there were great discounts on certain houses and I was always stocking up at 10am on the first day of the sale!!
Those days are over and prices have sky rocketed. Plus I have discovered other areas....Spain, Portugal, Argentina. The other day, I tasted a couple of `03s and was quite happy with what was offered. Hence my post here and my call for suggestions. Thanks for all the ideas, I am out there looking!!

That $60/70 dollars I have to spend? I am fairly comfortable with a nice Cru Bourgeois and maybe a good drinkable Ribero del Duero red. Of course, I will post TNs here!!!!

Oh yes, the `03 I sampled with ohs and aghs was the Chateau de Barbe Blanche from Lussac-Saint-Emilion, Andre Lurton.

Hey, somebody just found 2003 Brane Cantenac in Washington State for $24.97:

dat.erobertparker.com

costco.com

If you knew anyone down there, they could hold it for you.

Otherwise you could buy Sherry-Lehmann’s 2003 “Unsung Heroes” Bordeaux sampler: a mix of 12 different bottles from “lesser” appellations selected to be particularly good values at $150, or $160, for the case.

Or spend the same amount of money and get two [or even three, if you're lucky] bottles of Pontet Canet.

Have had the '03 Ponet Canet; goopy piece of crap, but hey, that is just my opinion, your tastes may vary.
Walt

[David M. Bueker]

Otherwise you could buy Sherry-Lehmann’s 2003 “Unsung Heroes” Bordeaux sampler: a mix of 12 different bottles from “lesser” appellations selected to be particularly good values at $150, or $160, for the case.

Or spend the same amount of money and get two [or even three, if you're lucky] bottles of Pontet Canet.

Have had the '03 Ponet Canet; goopy piece of crap, but hey, that is just my opinion, your tastes may vary.
Walt

Walt,

You of all people are not in the target audience for 2003 Pontet Canet. Anyway, I'm laying mine down for 15 years before I touch a bottle. From recent tastes it has already shut down, so it's acting like true Bordeaux.

goopy piece of crap
Walt

Aw, come on Walt. Don't mince words. Tell us how you really feel about it.

goopy piece of crap
Walt

Aw, come on Walt. Don't mince words. Tell us how you really feel about it.

OW,
Really have not had a wine I would want to put in my cellar but they probably aren't as bad as I think. My problem is when I taste Bordeaux I buy planning on aging for 10+ years. The '03s did not fit the bill. My strong wording was because someone insisted the wine was great and I was just playing the devil's advocate
Walt

I figured.
I too have mostly avoided the 03s.