Uncooperative Spouse

Hello All! It's been a really long time since I've visited you, but I'm still a wine lover and have recently renewed my enthyusiasm for wine tasting.

Anyway, my husband is still an avid 2 buck chuck kind of guy. In fact, he was irritated when we went to a wine store and tried a really nice Napa Valley Cab.(Bommarito). It was $24 and I bought it and he enjoyed it a lot. But he didn't want to enjoy it so much. He wants to be content w/ his bargain wines.

So, I will no longer try to reel him in. I will save the good stuff for me and serve him his favorite Banrock Station Merlot.

Am I the only one w/ an uncooperate spouse?

Mine's the other way - she'll always pick the expensive one in a blind tasting!

Ronica, you are in no way by yourself. My wife will not even try to like a glass or sip of wine. So, I have to do it all by myself. Did you know there are calories in wine?

Mine's the other way - she'll always pick the expensive one in a blind tasting!

I feel you pain. She complains about the $$ spent and then throws the bottle at me when I serve anything but the good stuff.
Walt

Ronica, you are in no way by yourself. My wife will not even try to like a glass or sip of wine. So, I have to do it all by myself. Did you know there are calories in wine?

I'm getting to the point now where I'd rather have wine than dessert. Or, maybe, dessert wine! The calories are worth it.

. . . and then throws the bottle at me when I serve anything but the good stuff.

Sounds violent; you may no want to get her drunk, anyways

Mine is (or, has been) very open-minded so far. She loves to try them, and she has tried everything put in front of her, all the while admitting when she doesn't like one. I feel for those of you that have to share this appreciation all alone, but you can do it.

Boy, Ronica, I may have this totally wrong -- but he sounds wonderfully cooperative to me.

You get to drink the good stuff; he is perfectly happy with a very different and less expensive level of good stuff. Great working compromise in my book -- and it's easy to keep wine for a few days if you can't finish a whole bottle by yourself.

One of the best things in my marriage is that Janet and I have vastly different tastes and interests -- it's been a great joy sharing the commonalities and exploring the differences.

Vive Le Difference!

Ronica,
Here's the secret: give him Edmund St. John wines! My husband was an avowed wine hater. Claimed they all smelled like pickled beet eggs (have you ever seen the purple eggs floating in a jar of beet juice?). I took him to a wine dinner at a nearby restaurant which featured ESJ wines paired exquistly with the food. Steve Edmunds being there, didn't hurt the cause, either. Anyway, I was sure I was going to get his share and mine of the wine, but lo and behold! He drank every one, and has remarked about them several times to friends! He is not a wine lover yet, but at least, he'll join me in a bottle of a something decent. ESJ wines are affordable and fabulous. I hope you are able to acquire them.

Good luck. I know what you are up against!
JuliaB

PS Good to have you back!

Even if my wife liked the bad stuff, I would not let her drink it in the house. I buy so much wine, there is no room for having anything less than good around the house. So I think you should tell your hubby to leave the wine buying to you, since he has no interest in it.

So, I will no longer try to reel him in.

Hello Ronica,

You must be a lot younger than I am. It seems to me like you posted just last week. Your time reference changes as you age.

Reading your post, at first I felt bad for you; then seeing Bob Ross’s reply, I realized that not everybody would view spousal differences in wine appreciation to be cause for suffering. Other than with regard to wine, do your and your husband’s worldviews convene? I have always thought similarity of worldview to be important in marriage, while differences in personality make the union robust.

A question I have is whether wine interest and taste in general are functions of worldview, personality, or something even more casual than either. My wife and I somehow evolved to have almost exact taste preferences in wine, and in the importance of wine as a symbol of existence. Lynn tends to like the Right Bank wines a tad more than the Left Bank; and I, the opposite.

I notice that most couples, however, have almost zero interest in wine; so I would have to conclude that they find symbols of spiritual union in other vehicles, such as religion. I have asked myself many times if I had married someone who did not share my interest in wine if I would have had to trade her in for an upgraded model. In other words, is it possible to go back to the farm once you have tasted Paris?

One thing I think I do know, however, is that calories in wine do not translate into fat. I have read about studies (which I am sure you can find on Google) that have shown that wine goes through you before the alcohol converts to sugar, or that the sugar totally metabolizes and is not stored. This does not make sense to me, but there are in fact studies that have demonstrated that wine does not convert to fat.

Data points of one do not produce bookable evidence, but we live by experience. On vacations I tend to drink tons of wine, but maintain my regular food intake. My weight remains unchanged. When I am working, I only drink a little wine on Thursday evening and a little more on Friday and Saturday evenings; nothing for four days in succession. If I indulge in a single peanut butter and jelly sandwich, however, my weight spikes up. I don’t think wine will put any weight on a person. Stay away from beer, however. And use this forum for the sharing of your love of wine.

Best,

Covert

First, in answer to the OP - my husband and I are no longer together, but when we were he had almost zero interest in wine. He could occassionally indulge me and have a 1/2 glass, or go to a tasting event, and would buy me wine related gifts, but it was not like I could really bounce my thoughts off of him or rely on him to help me finish a bottle (I feel your pain, Bob H.!). Also, he couldn't fathom spending more than $10 on a bottle, so we ran into a few "discussions" from time to time regarding that.

Covert, my personal experience would lead me to be skeptical about the studies you mention; I've gained six pounds and about 10% body fat since I started drinking wine in earnest almost a year ago. It may not sound like much, but on a 4' 10" frame, it's pretty significant. Now, I will concede that my food intake has also increased which may have something to do with it (the two just go together, and where I used to be content to have a glass or two of wine for dinner, I now find it very difficult to enjoy wine without food).

I've been married for 44 years. Beth likes golf, I prefer fishing. Beth likes bridge, I prefer poker. Beth likes museums, I prefer watching sports. Beth likes sight-seeing vacations, I need activities. I like wine, Beth's allergies deter her from participating most of the time. But it's been 44 great years because I do golf with her, and she fishes with me. I don't expect her to love fishing, and she doesn't expect me to love bridge. But we do it without grumbling (too much or publicly). And above all, we don't force our favored activities on the other.
Not that the above has anything to do with anything.

[Jenise]

Ronica, good plan: keep lots of Banrock around, and keep the good stuff for yourself. Eventually, he'll come alone for the ride, the way every couple I know ends up, after umpteen years, liking the same stuff on "their" pizza no matter what they each preferred on the day they said I Do.

My husband had me howling last night, and that wasn't his intention. But he'd had dinner with some BP execs at the local country club, and he was ranting about his overdone duck and several other people's "deplorable" entrees dish-by-dish pretty much the way I would--truly, from a cook's point of view though he himself doesn't cook--and complaining about the quality of the wines by the glass, wine by wine. This is a man who, historically, would rather die than complain or, god forbid, send food back--it's too uncool. When his rant reached a crescendo with, "And I should have known better than to order the pinot!" (referring to the cheap pinot problem you mention), I lost it. I was rolling on the floor. "I've ruined you!", I screamed delightedly, "I've ruined you! You can't go anywhere any more!"

By osmosis, your husband is as doomed as mine. Let him have his little Banrocks. By and by, with little tastes here and there, his palate will refine itself and he'll want to drink at the adult table.

One thing I think I do know, however, is that calories in wine do not translate into fat. I have read about studies (which I am sure you can find on Google) that have shown that wine goes through you before the alcohol converts to sugar, or that the sugar totally metabolizes and is not stored. This does not make sense to me, but there are in fact studies that have demonstrated that wine does not convert to fat.

I would be very interested to see those studies, Covert. There is a very clear and unambiguous biochemical pathway for the conversion of alcohol to fat. It happens in the liver and it's well documented (ethanol --> acetyl-CoA --> fatty acid biosynthesis). Another factor is that alcohol is an appetite stimulant, so people will tend to eat more food when it's accompanied (or preceded) by wine. However, there are mitigating factors, too. Wine with meals tends to slow down the meal, and the slower people eat, the less they eat because the satiety mechanisms have a chance to kick in before they've overeaten. Also, people who enjoy wine with meals often take more interest in cooking and food appreciation and both of those often lead to less consumption.

In summary, I wouldn't be surprised to see a study saying that wine drinkers put on less weight than people who drink comparable amounts of other alcoholic beverages, but I still would find it surprising in the extreme to read that drinking wine doesn't led to an increase in weight.

Mark Lipton

"I've ruined you!", I screamed delightedly, "I've ruined you! You can't go anywhere any more!"

LOL, Jenise! What a great story!

Look at it this way, your total wine bill is about 45% less than if you both liked the good stuff.
At one point in time, many years ago, my lovely wife asked to have a shelf in the cellar for wine she would feel comfortable opening while I was away on business. I was pleased to do this, of course so she wasn't pouring '83 Ch. Margaux in the spaghetti sauce.
I am equally happy that such a shelf in no longer necessary. Like Jenise said, we now both like the same wines.

I guess I'm just lucky. In the first year of our marriage we didn't drink much wine if any. Then the U.S.A.F. sent us to France before our first anniversary (yes, the U.S. had bases there then). We were in the area around Nancy, and we jointly discovered wine. Alsace was just around the corner and their wines were across the street. So were wines from St Emillion (a district we were drawn to), and the rest of the country.

Then, after two years, we were asked to leave the country (not us individually, but U.S.). So we moved to German wine country. We had our "own" little winemaker in Oppenheim.

That was over forty years ago, and our palates have evolved side by side. Life is good.

When I met my Sig Other, she was drinking under 10 buck Pinot Grigio. She thought she liked it. And anything red was just too much for her. It's been a learning experience the last 5 years. She says I have spoiled her. Now her favorite wine is pinot noir/burgundy. And for white on the deck on a hot day she reaches for savignon blanc. We haven't had a pinot grigio in ages. Now we are trying her out on Bordeaux.

This is getting expensive.

Glenn

[Robin Garr]

Am I the only one w/ an uncooperate spouse?

Ronica, welcome back! I think the others have hit the nail on the head with their comments about treasuring agreement with one's spouse/partner/SO on deep philosophical and lifestyle preferences while accepting small differences with a good sense of humor.

Just for chuckles, though, here's a simple procedure that works for me: Start your own small business that features great food and fine wine as central mission and cost center. Then set up the corporation with your spouse as full partner. As long as it's all tax-deductible anyway, who's going to argue about a "business decision" to go for that premier cru?

Covert, my personal experience would lead me to be skeptical about the studies you mention.

K, I know that you know it is important to look at evidence, rather than data points of one, whether yours or mine, when testing a hypothesis. I grabbed the first thing that popped up on Google: please see the following; it comes from: health.ninemsn.com.au. I'm sure you can find lots of references, if you look.

Best,

Covert

Jennifer Garth
Weight Loss Advisor

Jennifer Garth is a practicing psychologist, author, qualified fitness trainer and counsellor. She specialises in eating disorders and weight loss and healthy lifestyle management. Each month Jennifer answers Good Medicine magazine readers' questions about body image, weight management and other psychological problems relating to food and eating. Jennifer is no longer answering queries, but her previous answers remain for reference.

Wine and weight gain
Question

I drink about three or four glasses of wine a week. Can this make you put on weight? Are there any types of alcohol that don't make you put on weight or do they all contribute?

Answer

Drinking three to four glasses of wine a week is not going to cause you to put on weight. Alcohol contains calories, but according to extensive medical research — some studies involving as many as 140,00 subjects — alcohol, in moderation, does not lead to weight gain.

The reason alcohol doesn't cause weight gain is unclear. A study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition suggests that alcohol causes a significant increase in metabolism causing more calories to be burned than stored as fat. Another factor could be that the energy from alcohol is not efficiently used by the body.

People may think that alcohol causes weight gain but they often forget that many popular alcoholic drinks, especially cocktails, are combined with calorie-loaded mixers — and because alcohol diminishes resolve — people tend to forget their weight loss plans when drinking — and overeat.

Covert, I wasn't suggesting that my personal experience was evidence of anything, and I thought I made that clear but I guess not. I think that we have to be careful of reading too much into any study, as it seems that there are always contradictory studies out there to counter each other. I guess it's probably best for each person to learn what works well for them through trial and error, and I for one have lived long enough to learn to trust my body and experience and ignore the experts. However, I did find this article which I thought was rather interesting and which quotes a number of what seem to be reliable sources. Seems that while alcohol itself may not lead to weight gain, it may inhibit weight loss, and when combined with other factors does tend to lead to weight gain:

Why alcohol calories are more important than you think...
Successful weight loss is all about oxidizing (or burning), more calories than you eat. When they go on a diet, many people choose low-calorie alcoholic drinks, mainly because they contain fewer alcohol calories than their regular counterparts.

However, drinking too much has a far more damaging effect than you can predict simply by looking at the number of alcohol calories in a drink. Not only does it reduce the number of fat calories you burn, alcohol can increase your appetite and lower your testosterone levels for up to 24 hours after you finish drinking.

Alcohol calories
According to conventional wisdom, the infamous "beer belly" is caused by excess alcohol calories being stored as fat. Yet, less than five percent of the alcohol calories you drink are turned into fat. Rather, the main effect of alcohol is to reduce the amount of fat your body burns for energy.

Some evidence for this comes from research carried in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition [4]. Eight men were given two drinks of vodka and sugar-free lemonade separated by 30 minutes. Each drink contained just under 90 calories. Fat metabolism was measured before and after consumption of the drink. For several hours after drinking the vodka, whole body lipid oxidation (a measure of how much fat your body is burning) dropped by a massive 73%.


Rather than getting stored as fat, the main fate of alcohol is conversion into a substance called acetate. In fact, blood levels of acetate after drinking the vodka were 2.5 times higher than normal. And it appears this sharp rise in acetate puts the brakes on fat loss.

A car engine typically uses only one source of fuel. Your body, on the other hand, draws from a number of different energy sources, such as carbohydrate, fat, and protein. To a certain extent, the source of fuel your body uses is dictated by its availability.

In other words, your body tends to use whatever you feed it. Consequently, when acetate levels rise, your body simply burns more acetate, and less fat. In essence, acetate pushes fat to the back of the queue.

So, to summarize and review, here's what happens to fat metabolism after the odd drink or two.

. A small portion of the alcohol is converted into fat.

. Your liver then converts most of the alcohol into acetate.

. The acetate is then released into your bloodstream, and replaces fat as a source of fuel.

The way your body responds to alcohol is very similar to the way it deals with excess carbohydrate. Although carbohydrate can be converted directly into fat, one of the main effects of overfeeding with carbohydrate is that it simply replaces fat as a source of energy. That's why any type of diet, whether it's high-fat, high-protein, or high-carbohydrate, can lead to a gain in weight.

Appetite
The combination of alcohol and a high-calorie meal is especially fattening, mainly because alcohol acts as a potent appetizer. A Canadian study shows that an aperitif (an alcoholic drink taken before a meal to increase the appetite) increased calorie intake to a greater extent than a carbohydrate-based drink [5].

Researchers from Denmark's Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University report similar results [8]. When a group of men was given a meal and allowed to eat as much as they wanted, they ate more when the meal was served with beer or wine rather than a soft drink.

Not only does too much alcohol put the brakes on fat loss, it's also one of the most effective ways to slash your testosterone levels. Just a single bout of heavy drinking raises levels of the muscle-wasting hormone cortisol and increases the breakdown of testosterone for up to 24 hours [6]. The damaging effects of alcohol on testosterone are made even worse when you exercise before drinking [1].

The effect of alcohol on testosterone could be one reason that people who drink a lot carry less muscle. In fact, a 1993 study shows that alcoholic men have bigger waists and smaller muscles than teetotalers [2].

This doesn't mean you need to avoid alcohol completely.

A recent study, published in the November 2004 issue of the International Journal of Obesity, compared the effect of two different diets over a three-month period [7]. Both diets contained 1500 calories daily, one with 150 calories from white wine and one with 150 calories from grape juice.

Weight loss in the grape juice group and white wine group was 8.3 pounds and 10.4 pounds, respectively.

So, what's the bottom line?
Although an alcohol-rich meal does increase your metabolic rate, it also suppresses the number of fat calories your body burns for energy — far more so than meals rich in protein, carbohydrate, or fat [3]. While the odd drink now and again isn't going to hurt, the bottom line is that alcohol and a leaner, stronger body just doesn't mix.

Do you need help burning the fat from your belly or packing muscle on your chest, shoulders and arms? This site contains everything you need to know. It will teach you the best ways to get the lean, strong, healthy body you deserve. Get more FREE fat-burning and muscle-building tips here »



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References
1. Heikkonen, E., Ylikahri, R., Roine, R., Valimaki, M., Harkonen, M., & Salaspuro, M. (1996). The combined effect of alcohol and physical exercise on serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and cortisol in males. Alcoholism, Clinical and Experimental Research, 20, 711-716
2. Kvist, H., Hallgren, P., Jonsson, L., Pettersson, P., Sjoberg, C., Sjostrom, L., & Bjorntorp, P. (1993). Distribution of adipose tissue and muscle mass in alcoholic men. Metabolism, 42, 569-573
3. Raben A, Agerholm-Larsen L, Flint A, Holst JJ, Astrup A. (2003). Meals with similar energy densities but rich in protein, fat, carbohydrate, or alcohol have different effects on energy expenditure and substrate metabolism but not on appetite and energy intake. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 77, 91-100
4. Siler, S.Q., Neese, R.A., & Hellerstein, M.K. (1999). De novo lipogenesis, lipid kinetics, and whole-body lipid balances in humans after acute alcohol consumption. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 70, 928-936
5. Tremblay, A., & St-Pierre, S. (1996). The hyperphagic effect of a high-fat diet and alcohol intake persists after control for energy density. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 63, 479-482
6. Valimaki, M.J., Harkonen, M., Eriksson, C.J., & Ylikahri, R.H. (1984). Sex hormones and adrenocortical steroids in men acutely intoxicated with ethanol. Alcohol, 1, 89-93
7. Flechtner-Mors, M., Biesalski, H.K., Jenkinson, C.P., Adler, G., & Ditschuneit, H.H. (2004). Effects of moderate consumption of white wine on weight loss in overweight and obese subjects. International Journal of Obesity and Related Metabolic Disorders, 28, 1420-1426
8. Buemann, B., Toubro, S., & Astrup, A. (2002). The effect of wine or beer versus a carbonated soft drink, served at a meal, on ad libitum energy intake. International Journal of Obesity and Related Metabolic Disorders, 26, 1367-1372

Boy, Ronica, I may have this totally wrong -- but he sounds wonderfully cooperative to me.

You get to drink the good stuff; he is perfectly happy with a very different and less expensive level of good stuff. Great working compromise in my book -- and it's easy to keep wine for a few days if you can't finish a whole bottle by yourself.

One of the best things in my marriage is that Janet and I have vastly different tastes and interests -- it's been a great joy sharing the commonalities and exploring the differences.

Vive Le Difference!

Bob, you are right! It is nice to be able to spend a little more on the wines I drink while serving him his box wine. The only thing I miss out on is a wine tasting buddy. If he were into it like I am we would go to more wine tastings together. I would enjoy that.

Ronica,
Here's the secret: give him Edmund St. John wines! My husband was an avowed wine hater. Claimed they all smelled like pickled beet eggs (have you ever seen the purple eggs floating in a jar of beet juice?). I took him to a wine dinner at a nearby restaurant which featured ESJ wines paired exquistly with the food. Steve Edmunds being there, didn't hurt the cause, either. Anyway, I was sure I was going to get his share and mine of the wine, but lo and behold! He drank every one, and has remarked about them several times to friends! He is not a wine lover yet, but at least, he'll join me in a bottle of a something decent. ESJ wines are affordable and fabulous. I hope you are able to acquire them.

Good luck. I know what you are up against!
JuliaB

PS Good to have you back!

Thanks for the tip. I will try some ESJ wines.

So, I will no longer try to reel him in.

Hello Ronica,

You must be a lot younger than I am. It seems to me like you posted just last week. Your time reference changes as you age.

Hey Covert! I was wondering if you were still active on this board. Thanks for your response. Very thoughtful as usual. I think that my husband is gradually coming around.

He is very practical and he just doesn't want to prefer wines that cost more than he's willing so spend right now. We're in that saving for college fund and every other fund stage right now. As our discretionary income increases (who know when that will be) he will allow his taste in wine to become more expensive.

So, everything is fine. I spend my play $$$ on wine, I'm having fun and he doesn't mind.