Pinot Noir vs Gamay

There have been more than one posts recently discussing the difficulty in finding decent PNs for less than $30. One can blame the "Sideways" effect and the demand for top end Burgundies. Gamay, on the other hand, offers, I believe, a great QPR alternative. Top quality Beaujolais (Morgon) and even New World Gamays (ESJ, Chateau Des Charmes) can be had for a fraction of the price, yet to me, fall into many of the same food pairing categories and have many of the same tasting qualities of PNs and Burgundies. Beaujolais is not supposed to age very well, yet I've seen TNs that suggest otherwise. I think that being associated with Beaujolais "Nouveau", a different animal, so to speak, gives it a bad rep. Even this can be confounding, as I posted a TN on a 2 year old Nouveau a few years ago that was excellent. And speaking of aging, how many TNs do you see for PNs over 7 years old? Great Gamay can be had for less than $15, but you can't say that about Pinot Noir.

Interesting post, Howie. For me, I don't think Gamay will be replacing Pinot Noir. However, my wife and I recently spent a week in the Okanagan valley and tasted some great Gamay Noir.

In particular, Blue Mountain has a fabulous GN that would stand up to any Beaujolais, IMHO. Sandhill and Desert Hill also produce decent, food-friendly Gamays.

Interesting post, Howie. It's fair to say that Gamay doesn't get the respect that it deserves. Of course, we could probably say the same about Dolcetto and Lambrusco, too. The problems are similar: they make lighter-bodied wines and have been associated with overcropped, commercial crap. In the case of Gamay, it's interesting to reread Kermit Lynch's description of Beaujolais in his '88 book Adventures on the Wine Route and recall just how depressed the region was not that long ago. As long as the dominant paradigm among wine critics is to favor full-bodied, low acid wines, grapes like Gamay and Dolcetto will never get their due, and it will remain a well-kept secret that those "lighter" wines are every bit as ageworthy (or moreso) than a big bruiser of a Barossa Shiraz. Fortunately for us, that means more wine available and lower prices.

Mark Lipton

Interesting post, Howie. For me, I don't think Gamay will be replacing Pinot Noir. However, my wife and I recently spent a week in the Okanagan valley and tasted some great Gamay Noir.

In particular, Blue Mountain has a fabulous GN that would stand up to any Beaujolais, IMHO. Sandhill and Desert Hill also produce decent, food-friendly Gamays.

I won't be replacing my PN with Gamay either. However, the price point of decent PN almost demands a special occasion, whereas the Gamay can be enjoyed at more frequent, informal times. And from the viewpoint of a newbie, rushing headlong into top notch PN can be confusing and perhaps a bit intimidating, whereas a good Beaujolais or Gamay can lay the groundwork for one to truly appreciate the finer qualities of that special Pinot Noir when they get to it. I should mention that the best Gamay I ever had was from Stratus, however, it was priced above many PNs at $36. Also worth noting is the price of fresh must from the press house where I buy some of my supplies: For a 23L pail - Gamay is $48 - Pinot Noir is $70 (after pressing, each pail will yield about 15L or about 20 bottles). I mention these prices to illustrate that the big price differential between the wines is only partly attributable to the cost of the grapes.

I mention these prices to illustrate that the big price differential between the wines is only partly attributable to the cost of the grapes.

But do you know what the price for bulk grapes of PN and Gamay is in Burgundy/Beajolais?

Even there I would guess there is lots of variation. As pinot noir/Burgundy is not always expensive and there is tons of cheap stuff. It just so happens that the famous/hallowed pinot noir is expensive.

Just being contrarian again, I guess, but I have to respond with a couple of points:

1. Hard to get decent PN for under $30?

Well, that depends, I would suppose, on where you are and what your standards of "decent" are. I don't have much trouble finding fairly decent PN (and I'm talking French PN, as in French Burgundy) for under $30. There's actually quite a bit of "decent" (by my standards: reliable, good quality, true to variety and region, and something that I'd be happy to drink and serve) available locally. Heck, I could be happy with the availability from one store alone (although that store would be the Bottle Barn in Santa Rosa). But I know several other stores where I could do the same thing. Mind you, I'm not talking Grand Cru here; and damned few Premier Cru, I would expect....but then I don't expect to find GC and PC wines available at that price points.

2. I like some of the carefully selected Gamay wines from Beaujolais. And there's good variety of type and terroir and style from the different Cru, from Cote de Brouilly to Morgon to Moulin-a-Vent, so it's fun to dabble around. And you almost always get your money's worth, whatever the worth of the money is, with good Beaujolais, as the price hasn't been inflated too awfully much over the past few years. Sure, you have to avoid the minefields of Dubouef and ilk, but you have to do that in any region, and with any wine. Part of the adventure: and at least the adventure there doesn't cost as much as adventures otherwhere these days.

3. I don't think I'd ever think of Gamay "replacing" Pinot Noir. It can't. Not even a substitute. It's certainly not a "Poor Man's Pinot", and shouldn't be: it's Gamay. I don't particularly like the light and frothy style of Gamay, and don't waste my time on Nouveau (one glass a year and the phenomena has pretty much run its course for me, hoorah hoorah; Jesus could turn water into wine; Nouveau turns wine into water), but the good Cru producers are in a quality state all by themselves. As they should be.

Fine points Hoke, all of them.

But...

I don't think I'd ever think of Gamay "replacing" Pinot Noir. It can't. Not even a substitute. It's certainly not a "Poor Man's Pinot", and shouldn't be: it's Gamay.

while you are certainly correct in an absolute sense, if you need a fragrant low-tannin light red wine for whatever reason, pinot noir and gamay are two that come to mind, and if you can't afford/or just don't have a nice Burgundy at hand, in that sense gamay can be a sort of substitute for the pinot noir.

while you are certainly correct in an absolute sense, if you need a fragrant low-tannin light red wine for whatever reason, pinot noir and gamay are two that come to mind, and if you can't afford/or just don't have a nice Burgundy at hand, in that sense gamay can be a sort of substitute for the pinot noir.

And more than one person has found that, with sufficient bottle age, Gamay begins to veer northward in its flavor profile, tasting more and more like a mature Pinot Noir.

Mark Lipton

Jesus could turn water into wine; Nouveau turns wine into water

Classic.

Mark Lipton

There are great Gamays out there. I've had them, when I was in France. There was one Morgon, more than a decade old, from a very small estate, that could have held its own with any 1er Cru from the Cote d'Or. An elegant and complex wine by any standard.

On the other hand, you have Georges "Bananarama" Duboeuf giving gamay noir a bad name.

More of the gamay reaching the US is in the crap category than the pinot that's shipped here from France.

-Paul W.