Newbie in France is creating a cellar ... help!

Hello all,

This is my first post and I hope that my question is fun for you to consider. I am living in the south of France for a year with my family (poor us!8)), having come from Canada, where wine selection is not great and very good wines can be very expensive.

I'm living in Narbonne, about 100 km SW of Montpellier, and one of my goals this year is to create a great collection of wine that I can export home and enjoy for years to come. I'm already learning about local wines (as you can imagine, the variety is astonishing, even in Languedoc-Roussillon, and it's almost impossible to get a good grasp of what's nearby), and I'm also trying to learn more about French wines in general.

I have two questions for you, then:

1) I'm basically in the Corbières here, and I know the Corbières is one of the biggest regions in France. Also close by is St-Chinian, Minervois, and Limoux. I've got a good grasp of the St-Chinian wines (and discovered an astonishing 100% carignan from Berlou last week), as well as the sweet wines of the region. I also know the big names here -- Daumas Gassac, Negly -- but I'd like to know what you folks think are the unmissables down here. Who should I visit, what should I try, what should I buy and put down? I understand the 2001s and the 2005s are fantastic, but are there exceptions?

2) I plan a trip to Bordeaux in December and it's going to be a tasting and a buying trip, but I find even the idea of Bordeux overwhelming. Again, I know the outlines of what's what in Bordeaux, but I'd like to know what your candidates are for overlooked wines, wines that can give the big houses a run for their money. Who's in the shadow of Haut-Brion, of Chateau Margeaux, of Pétrus? What should I be buying to put down for ten-to-fifteen years? What should I splurge on? Are the 1998s as good as they say? And if so, which ones are essential to a good cellar?

Sorry for so many questions, but I appreciate all your ideas!

Michael

France is a great place to buy wine and, by and large, the best bargains are to be found at the cellar door; the leading estates in Bordeaux and Burgundy are an exception and mostly do not do cellar door sales and, when they do, are usually careful not to compete with downstream distribution on price. For Bordeaux wine there is often great choice and values at the annual Foires aux Vins of the leading Hyper/Supermarkets in september/October; the 2007 foires may be already finished in some groups.

I recommend that you get one of the annual guides to make an initial sort of estates worth visiting. IMHO the two best are the 2008 Guide by Olivier Poussier, etc. published by la revue du Vin de France and le Grand Guide 2008 by Bettane and Desseauve. Any decent "librairie" in Narbonne should stock these as does Amazon France.

As far as Languedoc/Roussillon are concerned my favourite estates are Mas Jullien, Mas du daumas Gassac, Alquier, Aupilhac, Clos Marie, Gauby and Mas Amiel but there are many others providing excellent value. At may estates I prefer the basic cuvee to the prestige wines which can be over-extracted and over-oaked; this does not apply with the above mentioned estates.

Alex R resident in Bordeaux can give you a lot of advice about the lesser names in that region. If he does not respond quickly, try refreshing the thread.

In many french cities there are excellent small wine merchants ("cavistes") who make up for rather uncompetitive prices by the shrewdness of their selection. One weakness in wine growing regions is often a weak selection from other french regions, let alone from regions in other wine growing countries.

There are a few vigneronnes from S France who post here from time to time.
Negley is a terrific winery, also look for Ch Bousset Cuvee Eugenie, La Clape, Domaine Sol Payre, Cotes du Rousillon. Might be worthwhile investing in Jeffords New France. Bit outdated but big names to look out for are mentioned.

Re: Alquier

In my note above I mention Alquier of Faugeres as one of my favourite estqates in Languedoc. Doing some Google research, it looks as if the estate may have split into Domaine Gilbert Alquier and Domaine Jean-Michel Alquier. The wines which i have enjoyed from past vintages are the reds Bastides and Maison Jaune as well as a white VdP; these seem to have stayed in the portfolio of Jean-Michel so that is the estate which I recommend.

FWIW, neither of the guides I recommend above show either Alquier in their 2008 edition although Jean-Michel was in the 2007 edition of RVF's guide. This may be due to non-submission of samples, uncertainty following a split or sliding standards. Take your pick.

Different estates with the same family name are a curse of European wine regions.

I'd like to know what you folks think are the unmissables down here

I'd try to get up to see Marlène Soria, at Peyre Rose.

Mapquest says that it's about 43 miles:

[url=http://www.mapquest.com/directions/europe.adp?go=1&1y=FR&1c=Narbonne&2y=FR&2c=Saint-Pargoire]http://www.mapquest.com/directions/europe.adp
?go=1&do=nw&1y=FR&1c=Narbonne&2y=FR&2c=Saint-Pargoire[/url]

I'd also think about something in the vicinity of Picpoul de Pinet [as I understand it, the same neck of the woods as Peyre Rose, but closer to the beach].

For instance, Domaine Félines Jourdan made a great PdP in 2005 [with the proviso that it might be an acquired taste]:

[url=http://www.mapquest.com/directions/europe.adp?go=1&1y=FR&1c=Narbonne&2y=FR&2c=Meze]http://www.mapquest.com/directions/europe.adp
?go=1&do=nw&1y=FR&1c=Narbonne&2y=FR&2c=Mèze[/url]

Who's in the shadow of Haut-Brion

Haut-Brion Blanc.

Are the 1998s as good as they say?

1998 Haut-Brion Blanc is.

Seriously: The prices of Bordeaux reds are just ridiculous these days [unless you're an investment banker - and a successful one at that], but you just might be able to find some great, ageworthy values in Bordeaux Blanc.

In addition to HB Blanc, I'd be looking at the usual suspects: Chevalier Blanc, Smith-Haut-Lafitte Blanc, Laville Haut-Brion [Blanc], etc.

But above all else, I'd be on the lookout for an Ygrec.

Ygrec [or just "Y"] is the dry wine which Yquem makes in years when there isn't enough botrytis to vinify a dessert wine.

I've heard that the 1964 Ygrec is to-die-for, and that, in forty years, so will be the 2000 Ygrec.

Who's in the shadow of... Chateau Margeaux

Palmer.

Are the 1998s as good as they say?

The 1998 Palmer is.

But unless you're in your twenties, then, if I were you, from an actuarial point of view, I wouldn't expect to be able to enjoy it in my lifetime.

PS: When asking [really begging] for appointments, I've found that faxing requests usually works a lot better than email.

Hello all,

This is my first post and I hope that my question is fun for you to consider. I am living in the south of France for a year with my family (poor us!8)), having come from Canada, where wine selection is not great and very good wines can be very expensive.

I'm living in Narbonne, about 100 km SW of Montpellier, and one of my goals this year is to create a great collection of wine that I can export home and enjoy for years to come.

One other thought - I wouldn't make any "big" [i.e. expensive] purchase of wine without first getting a subscription to Wine-Searcher Pro:

http://www.wine-searcher.com/prof/

With Wine-Searcher Pro, you'll know whether you've stumbled upon a real bargain, or are just getting ripped off.

Who's in the shadow of Haut-Brion

Haut-Brion Blanc.

Are the 1998s as good as they say?

1998 Haut-Brion Blanc is.

Seriously: The prices of Bordeaux reds are just ridiculous these days [unless you're an investment banker - and a successful one at that], but you just might be able to find some great, ageworthy values in Bordeaux Blanc.

In addition to HB Blanc, I'd be looking at the usual suspects: Chevalier Blanc, Smith-Haut-Lafitte Blanc, Laville Haut-Brion [Blanc], etc.

But above all else, I'd be on the lookout for an Ygrec.

Thanks so much for all of this -- I've been delighted with these responses. I don't know a lot about the whites in Bordeaux. How long can the HB blanc and the others you name go down for?

Many thanks again.

PS: I've tried quite a few Picpoul de Pinets and to be honest, they're not great wines, or at least I haven't had a great one yet. The three I've tried have all had a salty edge to them, and they are thin wines. I'll look out fo the one you suggest above, though.

Sauternes will go down forever; as will the wine by the name. The white table wines from Bordeaux do not have very long legs in our experience. Those from the Loire do much better, as do those from Alsace. Most of our aging whites come from those two regions of France.

Picpoul de Pinet is the wine they use in Dry Vermouth. However, we have had very nice bottles of the wine itself over the years.

I don't know a lot about the whites in Bordeaux.

The EWS [Executive Wine Seminars] did a Bordeaux Blanc tasting a few years ago; a copy of their notes is available at Robert Parker's site, and it would be a pretty good place to start:

http://www.erobertparker.com/EWS/ews24.asp

Note that they candidly admit that "it is still our observation that dry white Bordeaux doesn't seem to be in fashion these days", and you definitely find your best values in wines which are out of fashion.

How long can the HB blanc and the others you name go down for?

The "great" Bordeaux Blancs shouldn't have any trouble going 40 years [in a cool cellar, with a good, firm cork].

I mention Bordeaux Blanc for two reasons:

1) All the "great" red wines in Bordeaux [first growths on the left bank, premiers grands crus on the right bank] are trading at $1000+ now, whereas you might be able to find a great, ageworthy Blanc for not much more than $100, and

2) Admittedly, I tend to prefer white wine to red wine.

For instance, I wouldn't hesitate to pay $300 for a great Haut-Brion Blanc before I'd pay $1500 for a great Haut-Brion Rouge: The Rouge would barely even interest me, but I'd be really, really excited to try the Blanc.

Just checking Wine-Searcher Pro, it looks like you might still be able to find 2000 Ygrec [dry] for not much more than $100, whereas the very next vintage, the 2001 Yquem [sweet], will run you $500.

Of course, the 2001 is a 100-point wine [according to pretty much every critic on the face of the earth], but it sets you back by a factor of four or five.

As another example, here's the 2003 Chevalier Blanc, with 90 points from Tanzer, and 96 points from Parker, for $85:

[url=http://www.wineandco.com/domaine-de-chevalier-blanc-2003--cru-classe-de-graves-2484-fr-eur-fr.html]http://www.wineandco.com/
domaine-de-chevalier-blanc-2003--cru-classe-de-graves-2484-fr-eur-fr.html[/url]

Lotsa luck trying to find a Bordeaux red with 96 points from Parker for anything like $85.

Anyway, I think that the odds of randomly stumbling upon a "great", ageworthy Bordeaux red, which hasn't been discovered yet by Parker, Tanzer, Suckling, or Jancis Robinson, is pretty much zero, whereas there's at least a small chance that you might be able to get out of there with a pretty nice white which could age for a long, long time.

PS: I've tried quite a few Picpoul de Pinets and to be honest, they're not great wines, or at least I haven't had a great one yet. The three I've tried have all had a salty edge to them, and they are thin wines. I'll look out fo the one you suggest above, though.

Well, I've never been to Picpoul de Pinet, but judging from the pictures I've seen, it looks like it would be a great place for a picnic [especially if you had a girlfriend] - grab a blanket, some grub [I think they've got the largest fishing fleet there, so the seafood oughtta be pretty darned good], a couple of bottles of wine, and watch the sun set over the Bassin & the Mediterranean.

Life could be a lot worse.

I'd also think about something in the vicinity of Picpoul de Pinet [as I understand it, the same neck of the woods as Peyre Rose, but closer to the beach].

For instance, Domaine Félines Jourdan made a great PdP in 2005 [with the proviso that it might be an acquired taste]:

[url=http://www.mapquest.com/directions/europe.adp?go=1&1y=FR&1c=Narbonne&2y=FR&2c=Meze]http://www.mapquest.com/directions/europe.adp
?go=1&do=nw&1y=FR&1c=Narbonne&2y=FR&2c=Mèze[/url]

For a sub-$10 bottle with character, this is a damned fine wine.

I mention Bordeaux Blanc for two reasons:

1) All the "great" red wines in Bordeaux [first growths on the left bank, premiers grands crus on the right bank] are trading at $1000+ now, whereas you might be able to find a great, ageworthy Blanc for not much more than $100, and

2) Admittedly, I tend to prefer white wine to red wine.

The more I think about it, the more I come to feel that the 2005 Clos Nardian Blanc could be something really special in another 15 or 20 years.

Michael says he plans to "export home" his new wine. His home is in Canada, so how difficult will it be to take a substantial wine collection there?

Some visits to make :
Mas Amiel in Maury. The location is fantastic, and the wines are amazing.
La Coume du Roy (de Volontat Bachelet) in Maury. They have cheap old Maury
Cazes in Rivesaltes. Try their reds, and the cuvée Aimé Cazes.
Visit Banyuls and go to Caves de l'Etoile or other places.
Visit Clos des Fées of Hervé Bizeul
...