Serious wine flaw

I ran into a rare (to me) flaw that I don’t understand. A bottle of a relatively young (2000) Cru Bourgeois first showed a blue-green, moldy cork, upon removing the seal. It crumbled upon attempted removal, like potentially a cork in a 50-year-old wine. The wine had a very strong, disagreeable smell and taste, like volatile acidity and maybe ammonia, a little like a very rotten potato – very pungent and chemical. Mostly if a cork doesn’t hold up, the wine will be simply oxidized, not horribly chemical.

If anyone can explain the likely etiology I would be grateful. I need to sound knowledgeable when I attempt to return the bottle to an online wine source. Thank you.

Covert

I ran into a rare (to me) flaw that I don’t understand. A bottle of a relatively young (2000) Cru Bourgeois first showed a blue-green, moldy cork, upon removing the seal. It crumbled upon attempted removal, like potentially a cork in a 50-year-old wine. The wine had a very strong, disagreeable smell and taste, like volatile acidity and maybe ammonia, a little like a very rotten potato – very pungent and chemical. Mostly if a cork doesn’t hold up, the wine will be simply oxidized, not horribly chemical.

If anyone can explain the likely etiology I would be grateful. I need to sound knowledgeable when I attempt to return the bottle to an online wine source. Thank you.

Covert

Sounds like a case of volatile acidity--maybe ethyl acetate.

the mold on the cork is probably irrelevant. focus on the condition of the cork and the off smell and taste of the wine when dealing with the source. it might help is there were a second bottle that was sound that you could compare it with when discussing with them as well.

the mold on the cork is probably irrelevant. focus on the condition of the cork and the off smell and taste of the wine when dealing with the source. it might help is there were a second bottle that was sound that you could compare it with when discussing with them as well.

Also, the ammonia could indicate putriscine (sp)...Brett meeting Malo-lactic meeting high pH? Vintage 2000--a hot year?

Sounds like this bottle is a mess, but all of this is guess work without (1) smelling the wine ourselves (2) a lab analysis.

the mold on the cork is probably irrelevant. focus on the condition of the cork and the off smell and taste of the wine when dealing with the source. it might help is there were a second bottle that was sound that you could compare it with when discussing with them as well.

Thanks to you and Thomas. I mentioned the mold only because the wine was so young. I am used to mold on older bottles, but not on 2000s. A second bottle was corked, but the cork was in fine physical shape. I wanted to try a third bottle from the case, but my wife is insisting I just return the case, as two flops out of two bottles does not bode well (especially the first two). But of couse the two issues are completely unrelated, so I am going to open a third bottle, against my wife's better judgement. And she is also insisting that I call the wine shop today, which I guess I will do, to see what they will do if the third bottle has a problem, also. I wouldn't try to return a single, inexpensive bottle to anyplace but a corner shop.

Also, the ammonia could indicate putriscine (sp)...Brett meeting Malo-lactic meeting high pH? Vintage 2000--a hot year?

Putrescine is unlikely IMO, firstly because its smell is so characteristic of rotting animal flesh that it's rarely mistaken for anything else (except its close cousin cadaverine ) and secondly because it doesn't register as sharp with anyone I know who's smelled it. Ammonia OTOH is indeed sharp, as are the other low molecular weight amines (methylamine, ethylamine, dimethylamine). Since he didn't mention rotting fish, though, ammonia seems the most likely.

Sounds like this bottle is a mess, but all of this is guess work without (1) smelling the wine ourselves (2) a lab analysis.

Agreed.

Mark Lipton

If the mold's on the outside of the cork (the top, in other words) that doesn't mean anything. The unlabelled bottle storage in France often has a very damp environment.

That smell sounds very odd. though. Could it be corky + another defect, say VA?

Sounds like bacterial spoilage of some sort. Do you have any other bottles of that wine? Was it just this one bad bottle or the whole lot?

-Paul W.

If the mold's on the outside of the cork (the top, in other words) that doesn't mean anything. The unlabelled bottle storage in France often has a very damp environment.

That smell sounds very odd. though. Could it be corky + another defect, say VA?

The VA, or whatever it is, is so strong that you couldn't detect TCA through it.

A second bottle was definitely corky, but otherwise sound. The two problems were not related.

I spoke with the Napa wine store on the phone today. They said to send back any bad bottles and they would issue a credit. Very nice people.

Sounds like bacterial spoilage of some sort. Do you have any other bottles of that wine? Was it just this one bad bottle or the whole lot?

-Paul W.

Two were bad in two different ways. After I got the assurance from the store that they would credit any bad bottles, I will open a third and go from there.

Covert

From your description I am going to hazard a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) that perhaps the fungus is the problem. If the cork was crumbly and falling apart a wood rot type fungus could be responsible. It would only take some contamination of the corks with the fungal spores at the right time for the fungus to get started and breakdown the corks. More than one bottle in the same lot also suggests that cork exposure to spores (likely after the corks were sterilized) could be the problem.

Although less likely, in my opinion, bacterial rot could also be responsible. However, in my experience most bacterial rots are quite slimy and would not produce a cork with crumbly texture.

a wood rot type fungus could be responsible. It

Thanks, Tom. That rings as very plausible. It seems reasonable that the rotted cork was related. Will follow this lead with some research.

Covert

I like your explanation. Fungal spoilage often results in ammonia aromas, too (consider overripe Brie or Camembert).

-Paul W.

Putrescine is unlikely IMO, firstly because its smell is so characteristic of rotting animal flesh that it's rarely mistaken for anything else (except its close cousin cadaverine ) and secondly because it doesn't register as sharp with anyone I know who's smelled it. Ammonia OTOH is indeed sharp, as are the other low molecular weight amines (methylamine, ethylamine, dimethylamine). Since he didn't mention rotting fish, though, ammonia seems the most likely.

Mark

Please tell me more about these rotting fish odours. Are you saying that they are Putrescine? How does it occur. I have had a few wines that have smelled like this - seaside rock pools were what I was reminded of - but I have never managed to find out what those smells were all about. The only other snippet of relevant information I have managed to find is that "seaside smell" production is controlled by one gene in a number of microbes, but I am not sure that is the same as my "rock pool".

The worst instance was in a Croze.

The most recent was one of those experiences at merchant wine tastings.
Me: "Er, excuse me, but this wine tastes disgusting. Like rotting fish. It must be a bad bottle".
Rep behind table: "Oh! It went down very well with people last night. But people's tastes in wine do differ."
Me (thinks): "Grrrrr."
She didn't even smell or taste the wine I said was faulty. I eventually persuaded her to open another bottle for me, but I am sure she didn't understand what I was saying, and continued to pour from the faulty one.

Mark

Please tell me more about these rotting fish odours. Are you saying that they are Putrescine? How does it occur. I have had a few wines that have smelled like this - seaside rock pools were what I was reminded of - but I have never managed to find out what those smells were all about. The only other snippet of relevant information I have managed to find is that "seaside smell" production is controlled by one gene in a number of microbes, but I am not sure that is the same as my "rock pool".

The worst instance was in a Croze.

The most recent was one of those experiences at merchant wine tastings.
Me: "Er, excuse me, but this wine tastes disgusting. Like rotting fish. It must be a bad bottle".
Rep behind table: "Oh! It went down very well with people last night. But people's tastes in wine do differ."
Me (thinks): "Grrrrr."
She didn't even smell or taste the wine I said was faulty. I eventually persuaded her to open another bottle for me, but I am sure she didn't understand what I was saying, and continued to pour from the faulty one.

I am not Mark, but at a recent wine industry seminar concerning the pros and cons of spontaneous or inoculated malolactic fermentation, plus the development of Brett., the rotting amines were all over the place.

It's connected to the two processes when producing wine (ml and brett), and to wine pH/acidity.(I should add SO2 to the list, not to mention sugar and alcohol).

Please tell me more about these rotting fish odours. Are you saying that they are Putrescine? How does it occur. I have had a few wines that have smelled like this - seaside rock pools were what I was reminded of - but I have never managed to find out what those smells were all about. The only other snippet of relevant information I have managed to find is that "seaside smell" production is controlled by one gene in a number of microbes, but I am not sure that is the same as my "rock pool".

Steve,
The smell of old and rotting fish is caused by trimethylamine, a low molecular weight amine formed by microorganisms metabolizing the oils of dead fish. It's quite distinct from the smell of putrescine and cadaverine, both of which are bigger than trimethylamine and are diamines, formed by the metabolism of certain amino acids in animal corpses.

The worst instance was in a Croze.

eek!

The most recent was one of those experiences at merchant wine tastings.
Me: "Er, excuse me, but this wine tastes disgusting. Like rotting fish. It must be a bad bottle".
Rep behind table: "Oh! It went down very well with people last night. But people's tastes in wine do differ."
Me (thinks): "Grrrrr."
She didn't even smell or taste the wine I said was faulty. I eventually persuaded her to open another bottle for me, but I am sure she didn't understand what I was saying, and continued to pour from the faulty one.

One thing to keep in mind is that food can interact with wine to produce that sensation. If I'm fool enough to try drinking a low-acid red or white wine with shrimp or salmon, I'll taste that rotting fish flavor courtesy of the fish oils that aren't cleansed from my palate -- yum! In your case, though, I'd guess that it was a genuine flaw with the wine and the rep wasn't clever enough to recognize that.

Mark Lipton

Thanks Mark and Thomas. Still not sure how the nasty amines come to get into wine, but I guess there is no easy answer to that. I have noticed, Mark, how easily a glass can get contaminated after eating fish, leading to unpleasant smells later in a meal. But, yes, at the tasting it was definitely a bad bottle - the one opened at my request tasted fine.

Thanks Mark and Thomas. Still not sure how the nasty amines come to get into wine, but I guess there is no easy answer to that. I have noticed, Mark, how easily a glass can get contaminated after eating fish, leading to unpleasant smells later in a meal. But, yes, at the tasting it was definitely a bad bottle - the one opened at my request tasted fine.

Steve, it happens because a bottle of wine is a 750ml petri dish!!!