Does tasting wine with music change a wine's flavor?

In the Chronicle piece about this music thing mention was made that brain studies indicate that the same part of our brains that analyze music also analyze olfactory sensations. It's supposedly connected to synesthetes.

That, at least, makes sense. It's all analysis, after all.

I know that certain musical chords on my piano induce colors in my mind, but again, this fellow is saying it isn't us being affected by the music but it's the wine, and that is nuts. In fact, the article intermingles perception and direct effect, which are not the same thing.

I think it may even be worse than that, as it seems that they're intermingling perception, analysis and direct effect. I have no problem believing that I can't analyze wines well with music playing, but that they actually taste different? A tough thesis to prove, I think.

Mark Lipton

Not just Yes, but Hell Yes. You would have to have a pretty cold soul for it not to. Get Jenise to explaine synesthesia. I'll bet you already know all about it, though.

I have no problem believing that I can't analyze wines well with music playing, but that they actually taste different? A tough thesis to prove, I think.
Mark Lipton

I bet if I poured a big glass of chardonnay and lined up several tracks of different music genres - and had a sip of that chardonnay with each different music genre, the taste of the chardonnay would change over the course of the experiment - but in the same way it changes from the top of the glass to the bottom of the glass - from the first pour of the bottle to the past pour of the bottle - from the first tasting when the wine is cool to the last tasting where the wine has warmed up in the glass. The taste will subtlely change.

But I'm betting it will prove that it is all to so with the normal evolution of a wine once a bottle is opened and the wine is poured, nothing to do with the music at all.

It would be interesting to do it with people wearing headphones - some being channeled the music through the headphones while the others had silence. For the latter group, the only music they would hear, is what they conjure up in their minds.

the 3rd movement of Beethoven's 7th is really better suited to red Burgundy

Furtwangler is Gevrey; Toscanini is Volnay.

Love music, love wine, rarely combine the two. Music effects mood and how your mood changes will effect your reaction to what is in your glass, but I doubt there is any casual relationship.

Not just Yes, but Hell Yes. You would have to have a pretty cold soul for it not to. Get Jenise to explaine synesthesia. I'll bet you already know all about it, though.

One more f*ing time: the man is saying that the music changes the wine, not what we perceive about the wine.

The fact that I respond to a mechanism in my brain known as synestesia, which I do, changes neither my keyboard nor the sounds that come out of the strings in my piano. It's a brain associative response.

Uh, Guys?


I think the article was focusing on the ambient nature of music and how it makes one feel relative to how one might perceive the grape in the glass.


I think it would be comparable to eating a dinner cooked by a loved one that may not be their best offering, but the experience surmounted the minor "difficulties" associated with it.

So what would one drink while listening to Ewazen's Violin Concerto, Torke's 'Javelin', or Sammy Hagar's 'Heavy Metal'? What about Crumb's 'Songs of Innocence and Experience', Corigliano's 'Circus Maximus', Shastakovich's 'Preludes and Fugues', The Cure's 'Love Song', or Picker's 'Old and Lost Rivers'? How about Puts' 'Inspiring Beethoven'?

rwj

One more f*ing time: the man is saying that the music changes the wine, not what we perceive about the wine.

The fact that I respond to a mechanism in my brain known as synestesia, which I do, changes neither my keyboard nor the sounds that come out of the strings in my piano. It's a brain associative response.

Hm.


I understand your concerns here, but when you say this is a "brain associative response" that would be perception, would it not?

How else do we explain perception if it isn't directly connected to what the brain associates to a given sensory, uh...perception?

Let's define terms then, shall we?

per·cep·tion –noun

1. the act or faculty of apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding.
2. immediate or intuitive recognition or appreciation, as of moral, psychological, or aesthetic qualities; insight; intuition; discernment: an artist of rare perception.
3. the result or product of perceiving, as distinguished from the act of perceiving; percept.
4. Psychology. a single unified awareness derived from sensory processes while a stimulus is present.
Source: Dictionary.com

That would include music....am I right?


In reality, isn't that how all human beings relate to the World?



Why should our perception of wine be any different on that level?

One more f*ing time: the man is saying that the music changes the wine, not what we perceive about the wine.

The fact that I respond to a mechanism in my brain known as synestesia, which I do, changes neither my keyboard nor the sounds that come out of the strings in my piano. It's a brain associative response.

Hm.


I understand your concerns here, but when you say this is a "brain associative response" that would be perception, would it not?

How else do we explain perception if it isn't directly connected to what the brain associates to a given sensory, uh...perception?

Let's define terms then, shall we?

per·cep·tion –noun

1. the act or faculty of apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding.
2. immediate or intuitive recognition or appreciation, as of moral, psychological, or aesthetic qualities; insight; intuition; discernment: an artist of rare perception.
3. the result or product of perceiving, as distinguished from the act of perceiving; percept.
4. Psychology. a single unified awareness derived from sensory processes while a stimulus is present.
Source: Dictionary.com

That would include music....am I right?


In reality, isn't that how all human beings relate to the World?



Why should our perception of wine be any different on that level?

Yeah, it would be perception, but I don't know how many times it takes to say that the man specifically stated that the music changes the wine, not our perception of it.

Is there something about cognizance that needs to be said?

Here are some quotes from the story--try hard to understand them, Tim:

“…it's not possible to record a generic ‘music to drink wine by’ CD because a song that might make Pinot Noir taste great can make Cabernet Sauvignon taste awful. You have to pay attention to individual music and wine pairings."

"Blackburn was interested in synesthesia, in which people experience one type of sensation with a different sense. Famous synesthetes include composers like Duke Ellington and Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, who experienced musical notes as colors.

But Smith felt something else going on. He wasn't experiencing music as flavor; he believed the music was changing the flavor of the wines."

I think the last paragraph might be the one, but what do I know? I don't use a dictionary to develop my powers of comprehension.

Not just Yes, but Hell Yes. You would have to have a pretty cold soul for it not to. Get Jenise to explaine synesthesia. I'll bet you already know all about it, though.

Yes, and I understand what a rare condition it is. Can you tell me what purple smells like, or the taste of Beethoven? No? Then you're not experiencing true synthesia. Apart from experiences under the influence of LSD, I have never known anyone who had a true synesthetic experience.

Mark Lipton

Not just Yes, but Hell Yes. You would have to have a pretty cold soul for it not to. Get Jenise to explaine synesthesia. I'll bet you already know all about it, though.

Yes, and I understand what a rare condition it is. Can you tell me what purple smells like, or the taste of Beethoven? No? Then you're not experiencing true synthesia. Apart from experiences under the influence of LSD, I have never known anyone who had a true synesthetic experience.

Mark Lipton

Beethoven tastes like veal. Or a nice custard.

rwj

One more f*ing time: the man is saying that the music changes the wine, not what we perceive about the wine.

Partly my fault for the misleading thread title (I'll try and edit it), but you are absolutely right, Thomas. The heading of the newspaper article is. "Vintner insists music can change wine's flavors"

And I did ask, "So does anyone concur with Smith's thoughts? Does certain music make your wine taste better? Has anyone actually experimented?"

So guys, the real question here is - Does music actually change a wine's flavour.?

Or does it simply put you in a better mood for tasting wine?

Cheers,
Sue

Sue, now that you have changed the question in the title, I say categorically "no".

It can, however, affect mood and concentration very often for the worse and rarely better than neutrally, as I tried to say in my previous post.

One more f*ing time: the man is saying that the music changes the wine, not what we perceive about the wine.

Partly my fault for the misleading thread title (I'll try and edit it), but you are absolutely right, Thomas. The heading of the newspaper article is. "Vintner insists music can change wine's flavors"

And I did ask, "So does anyone concur with Smith's thoughts? Does certain music make your wine taste better? Has anyone actually experimented?"

So guys, the real question here is - Does music actually change a wine's flavour.?

Or does it simply put you in a better mood for tasting wine?

Cheers,
Sue

True, Sue, about your title, but how many times throughout the thread were people reminded?

This brings up a question: I wonder how many people read the question, skip the already threaded posts (or read just the last threaded post) and then come up with a reply? Certainly seems like TimMc may have done it that way

Smith says, "If food, glassware, ambient temperature, perfume and the people sitting next to you all influence the taste of wine, why wouldn't music?"

Probably because all the things he names have a smell, taste or change in temperature connected to them. What, pray tell, does music smell like?

The ability to change a person's perception of wine is attributed to many things, including music. But the ability to change the actual taste of the wine seems limited to smell and taste. Granted, some music stinks, but I'm not sure that's a literal reference...

After several smart-ass comments I have say that I stand in agreement with Thomas. I don't think that music can change the taste of wine.

I also find it interesting that most of the references to music in this thread are to 'classical' music or jazz. Hmmm.....

rwj

[David M. Bueker]

Music can't change the actual flavor or aromatics of a wine. It can change our perception. Heck, a dog barking in the yard can change our perception.

Smith says, "If food, glassware, ambient temperature, perfume and the people sitting next to you all influence the taste of wine, why wouldn't music?"

Probably because all the things he names have a smell, taste or change in temperature connected to them. What, pray tell, does music smell like?

The ability to change a person's perception of wine is attributed to many things, including music. But the ability to change the actual taste of the wine seems limited to smell and taste. Granted, some music stinks, but I'm not sure that's a literal reference...

I also find it interesting that most of the references to music in this thread are to 'classical' music or jazz. Hmmm.....

rwj

Not all of them, Robert.

I posted that it must have been the Rock 'n' Roll that made my Thunderbird taste so bad many years ago...

Not all, but most. I have always found it interesting that people equate 'classical' with fine wine. Lafite tastes the same to me when Black Sabbath is playing. And, yes, I have had the combo. But I am good at tuning out music.

rwj

Not all, but most. I have always found it interesting that people equate 'classical' with fine wine. Lafite tastes the same to me when Black Sabbath is playing. And, yes, I have had the combo. But I am good at tuning out music.

rwj

It's likely just another of those wine=snobs thing

Not all, but most. I have always found it interesting that people equate 'classical' with fine wine. Lafite tastes the same to me when Black Sabbath is playing. And, yes, I have had the combo. But I am good at tuning out music.

rwj

It's likely just another of those wine=snobs thing

Most likely, yes.

rwj

[David M. Bueker]

Riesling always tastes better while listening to "South Side of the Sky."

Riesling always tastes better while listening to "South Side of the Sky."

I find anything tastes better when listening to "Dark Side of the Moon".

[David M. Bueker]

Riesling always tastes better while listening to "South Side of the Sky."

I find anything tastes better when listening to "Dark Side of the Moon".

I usually put on "Animals."

Riesling always tastes better while listening to "South Side of the Sky."

I find anything tastes better when listening to "Dark Side of the Moon".

I usually put on "Animals."

Do you feel the pulse of the animals behind the wall on the dark side of the moon? Gosh I wish you were here so you could see for yourself I didn't have a momentary lapse of reason. My atom heart mother knows my saucerful of secrets. Do you want more ummagumma or is this the final cut.

Do I hear a 'yes' from the south side of the sky?

BTW - Peope who like Pink Floyd like Led Zeppelin. True in my case. I guess I'm just a living loving maid who wants a whole lotta love as I ascend a stairway to heaven.

LOL.