Are Vintages still important?

There was a big item about wine in my Sunday paper 'The Sunday Times' (in the UK)

The Title? - '2007 - a bad year for vintage snobs'

The thrust of the piece was from a foreword in the new Hugh Johnson book '2008 Pocket Wine Book' - basically saying that modern wine making methods could compensate for bad weather etc. and that almost any year is a perfectly good one for drinkers.

I think this is in the area of say 90% of wines rather than the very best wines ie for the average drinker of wines 'vintage' no longer matters.

What do you think?

Here's a small image of the piece with a link to a large one:-



Larger image link:-

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/dac100/ningimages/vintages1.jpg

Cheers, Dave C

...I think this is in the area of say 90% of wines rather than the very best wines ie for the average drinker of wines 'vintage' no longer matters...
...What do you think?

My guess is that 75% of the wine sold is non-vintage, so in a way I'd have to agree, but in this forum, it's that 10% that is important here. The variabilities of vintages in different areas does matter, and as a home wine maker, I have first hand experience with those variables on a local level. Last year sucked. This year is great.

Dave,

Do you have a link to the actual story online?


Very difficult to read this download of yours.

Tim - Here's a link:
2007 - a bad year for vintage snobs

I thought the vintage on the label represented when a producer bought the RO machine used in making the wine?

Dave,

Do you have a link to the actual story online?


Very difficult to read this download of yours.

How's this - 1400x1400:-


http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/davecooper2/forumpics/vintagesbig.jpg

Cheers, Dave C

[David M. Bueker]

I would doubt that 75% of wine sold is non-vintage. Even jug wines have vintages these days.

I would doubt that 75% of wine sold is non-vintage. Even jug wines have vintages these days.

I wonder if Howie means the year on the label is becoming more 'year produced' - on cheap wines that is - rather than a declaration of 'vintage quality' ?

Is seems in supermarkets at least they reduce the '2005' wines (as OLD) when the '2006' wines hit the shelves.

Cheers, Dave C

I suspect that what Johnson actually wrote is far more balanced that the Sunday Times journalist's initial paragraph suggests -

"IT is enough to make wine connoisseurs choke on their Pétrus. Hugh Johnson, the doyen of wine critics, has decreed that vintages hardly matter any more."

What rubbish! Indeed the few quotes in the article are a lot more sensible than that headline.

It is true that bad vintages are far less common than three or four decades ago. Furthermore in mass market wines the industrial type techniques used can smooth over many of the differences which do occur and, in any case, vintage variation is far less marked in countries like Australia and Chile than it is in North Western Europe.

Having said that, it suffices to attend a tasting, like the one where I was yesterday, to understand the markedly different character which each vintage brings to wines of the same estate and vineyard. Hugh Johnson knows that as well as anybody.

Certain critics do over-praise certain "big" vintages like 2000, 2003 and 2005 in Bordeaux but that means that there is more wine from the others at sensible prices for people like me. I am confident that there will be some good bargains from 2007 in areas which suffered from the poor summer and, of course, conditions in the southern Rhône and most of Italy were reportedly excellent.

I would doubt that 75% of wine sold is non-vintage. Even jug wines have vintages these days.

I wonder if Howie means the year on the label is becoming more 'year produced' - on cheap wines that is - rather than a declaration of 'vintage quality' ?

Is seems in supermarkets at least they reduce the '2005' wines (as OLD) when the '2006' wines hit the shelves.

Cheers, Dave C

No, I was referring to the vintage - the year the grapes were harvested. I haven't checked lately, but do they put vintage dates on box wines?

Only 85% of the grapes have to be harvested on the labeled vintage date.

Salute

Tim - Here's a link:
2007 - a bad year for vintage snobs

Thanks, Howie.

BTW...interesting article.

I would doubt that 75% of wine sold is non-vintage. Even jug wines have vintages these days.

I wonder if Howie means the year on the label is becoming more 'year produced' - on cheap wines that is - rather than a declaration of 'vintage quality' ?

Is seems in supermarkets at least they reduce the '2005' wines (as OLD) when the '2006' wines hit the shelves.

Cheers, Dave C

Fine with me, Dave.


I'll take all the "old" wine the mega-marts are willing to discount for me.

As it happens my HJ Pocket Book arrive yesterday. He does indeed say that vintages are not so critical in determining whether the wine is an enjoyable drink. But he also makes the point that vintages are becoming more important for investors. Also that vintage STYLE is still important, e.g. hot 2003 in Bx vs more "classic" 2001 and 2004.

I think he is right overall but in part slightly wrong.

I believe that with modern wine making a lot of vintage variation can be less important.

Modern viticulture is in my view a bigger problem. No winemaking techniques can fully mask bad raw material. Sadly most consumers are used to drink over manipulated wines, industrially grown vegetables and meat from cows that don't move. Quality of raw material is not what people are used to judge today.

Therefore wineries can get away with wines that are made with proteins, enzymes and concentrators to better the wine, but look at the fruit quality and one will see the true quality of the wine. So vintages are important, however are they so important that the hype indicate?

Already having tried many Bordeaux 2005s I can conclude there is no way the quality of the wines can justify the price difference. I think its a less good vintage than 2000 but very similar in style. Not my style. Fine wine today is just about wine as a luxury item. Boring it has become, just the way cognac went in the 80s and 90s.

However look at 2003. We will have another type of bad vintages, the too hot once. Winemaking can not fix unripe tannins, so yes with mascara they can mask most rainy vintages, but too hot once will be the new bad vintages,

Best
Fredrik Svensson, Luxembourg.

Steve,

That is exactly what I would expect HJ to say.

Truly all the Murdoch press goes in for populist distortion; the only difference between the Sunday Times and the Sun is that the former is better spoken and dressed and even more hypocritical. Poor Wall Street Journal.


Frederik,

I broadly agree with your analysis.

Poor Journal is right, although it's hard to see how even Murdoch could make their wine coverage any worse.