Jason Haas On AVAs....

Jason Haas (TablasCreek) recently posted on his blog some interesting comments on the current TTB refusal to issue new AVAs. I suspect that he's right on in that it does not bode well for the wine consumer.
Anyway...interesting read.
TomHill


JasonHaas On AVAs

I have to respectfully disagree with him. I think AVAs are pretty much meaningless. It always has been and always will be the producer that is of primary importance. And where is it cast in concrete that the best quality wine comes about when all the grapes come from the same geographic vicinity? People used to pay a premium for Bordeaux that was dosed with syrah from the Northern Rhone, and the producers proudly boasted of this blending on their labels. Australia still recognizes the merits of this practice with its cabernet/shiraz blends, but it's now illegal in France because it violates the dogma on which the whole AOC system is based--that pinning down geographic origin equates to increased quality.

AVAs in the US wine market are a waste of time, and just an ego trip for the growers.

-Paul W.

Guess I would disagree w/ you on that issue, Paul. I would not dismiss it as meaningless...but I would acknowledge that I put much more importance in the producer than anything. Whether the wine is from Calif, Italy, or France.
The AVA system does exactly what it's supposed to do...it identifies...to varying degrees of precision...where the grapes come from..nothing more. There are no assurances of quality like there are w/ the French AC system (assurances?? that's a joke). Any inferences in quality comes from my experience w/ wines from that AVA. Certainly a Syrah labeled as coming from the SonomaCoast AVA carries a bit more pedigree in my mind than one that is simply Calif AVA.
I think to dismiss the use of AVA as the gower's ego trip is just plain wrong, though. They're only wanting to identify the source of grapes, nothing more.
Tom

I agree with you Tom, and I think Matt Kramer, did a good job discussing the AVA system in his book “Making Sense of California Wines”. Even back in 1992 (copyright date), Matt Kramer said that the AVA’s will eventfully have to be “refined” with the passing of time.

Salute

Thanks for the reference, Tom. I agree -- this is a very negative development from a consumer's point of view. I certainly would prefer a tighter definition in many areas of the US, and I'm sure the better winemakers would as well.

Regards, Bob

I think to dismiss the use of AVA as the gower's ego trip is just plain wrong, though. They're only wanting to identify the source of grapes, nothing more.
Tom

And why should I, as the wine consumer, care where the grapes come from? I only care what the wine made from them tastes like.

I see AVAs merely as an excuse for producers to jack up the bottle price.

-Paul W.

And why should I, as the wine consumer, care where the grapes come from? I only care what the wine made from them tastes like.

I see AVAs merely as an excuse for producers to jack up the bottle price.

-Paul W.

So...you wander into this wine shop...looking for a PinotNoir. They don't have your favorite YellowTail Pinot that you know and love. So you have to punt. You pick up this btl of Pinot you never done heard of before. You don't know what it tastes like. Do you buy it??? If one says SonomaCoast Pinot, the other says SanJoaquinVlly (a very prestigious appellation if there ever were one). Which do you buy?? It's information like this that helps your buying decision.
Indeed....following your argument....they only put PinotNoir on the label to jack up the price. Or the vintage date to jack up the price. Why not just label the btl as wine, slap on the UPC code so you get a wine you know you like the taste of...and be done with it??
To me....any information they put on the label is information that helps my buying decision. I don't always know if I'm going to like the way the wine tastes. This sort of information helps me in those decisions to buy or not.
Tom

And why should I, as the wine consumer, care where the grapes come from? I only care what the wine made from them tastes like.

??? Are you rejecting the idea that knowledge of where the grapes come from could inform us about what they're likely to taste like? Without invoking the dreaded T word, I can still argue that if I see a "Santa Lucia Highlands" AVA on the label of a California Pinot Noir, I'm much less likely to seek it out than if it bears the Carneros AVA on it. And do you really think that consumers will reflexively pay more for a wine with an AVA designation on it? Speaking as a consumer, I doubt that I've ever made that association during my purchasing.

Mark Lipton

I think AVAs are pretty much meaningless. It always has been and always will be the producer that is of primary importance.

Jeez, Paul, isn't that a little strong? It conflicts with a lot of my experience too. Not that producer isn't extremely important. But:

1. I've spotted Burgundian subregions just from the smell, I can catch a couple of them pretty reliably -- from producers I've never had before.

2. The first major post-Prohibition California wine book (Schoonmaker and Marvel) predicted in 1941, from geography and climate, potentials in California. Note especially the last sentence below. Were they far off the mark?

Napa Valley, Healdsburg, and the Santa Cruz Mountains measure, with this analysis, intermediately between Bordeaux and Piedmont; the “Great Central Valley” likewise between Tuscany and Algeria; Sonoma measures close to Beaune in Burgundy. From the data, they also concluded that delicate Germanic styles à la Mosel or Rheingau would work poorly in California whereas, though the regions were then relatively lightly planted, “California’s best table wines, whether white or red, may be expected to come from the Santa Cruz Mountains, from the Napa Valley, and from Sonoma County.”

Jancis Robinson had an interesting perspective on this issue; I had asked her if I was over-reacting in thinking this was a negative development from a consumer's point of view.

Her answer:


Must agree with you and say that AVAs have an awful long way to go before they really serve the consumer. So many of them are ridiculously big (Columbia Valley springs to mind - why not just call it Washingotn?). And the boundaries seem far too often to be political rather than geographical.

In a way, theyshould ideally spring up only when a region develops such a fine reputation that people start to want to cheat and pretend their wines come from that region rather than being imposed by regulators.

Should be good sport watching the TTB's contortions.

Well, as a consumer of governmental humor, at least I'll be well served on that front.

Regards, Bob

Thanks for the replies.

On second thought, the TTB can't possibly do any worse than that travesty of an AOC in Burgundy, Clos de Vougeot Grand Cru. Putting a wall around a plot of land doth not a grand cru make. Yes, the part of the appellation on the high slopes, where all the other grands crus are, fully deserves its high standing. But you can't tell me that the flat part by the RN deserves to be grand cru while the plot on the other side of the wall is only of commune status.

I still have full confidence in the ability of crap winemakers to make crap wine out of even the most prestigious raw materials. Which is why I say that the producer is the most important component of the equation.

I still think the USA is jumping the gun by a century or two in drawing AVA lines.

-Paul W.