WTN: The ZH Burn

I was having dinner with a friend the other night, and was going back and forth between the 2004 Cotat Rosé and the 2002 Zind Humbrecht Heimbourg Gewurztraminer.

Of course my inner voice preferred the Cotat. But we were only having one wine with dinner and I knew my friend wouldn't want to drink rosé the entire meal. So I went with the ZH.

Good God! The color of single malt scotch and tastes like it too. 15.5% and feels much worse. Still with plenty of fat, although not enough to cover the alcohol. Was it this bad on release?

Scaling down the hyperbole, it wasn't a terrible wine, and wasn't totally falling apart. But, needless to say, I fell asleep dreaming of Cotat Missed.

But my friend liked it, so.

I am amazed at the 15.5 per cent alchol for an Alsatian wine!!

I might expect a higher alcohol content from a south of France wine than from, say, a Chabils, I never would have thought of this region producing big alcohol bombs. Another example of a worrying trend.

I might expect a higher alcohol content from a south of France wine than from, say, a Chabils, I never would have thought of this region producing big alcohol bombs..

Yes, although isn't there some statistic about how Alsace gets the most (or almost the most) sun hours of any region in France. Much hotter than Chablis.

That said, 15.5% was too high for me, in this case.

R., 1- your friend liked it
2- Gewurz, even with residual sugar can have a distinct bitterness on the finish that I have heard seasoned tasters think this was alcohol, "because it was on the finish hitting the back of the tongue"
ZH goes for as ripe as possible without raisins. To balance the increased sugar, he lets the wine naturally ferment, thus higher alcohol.
The average Alsace wine tends to be lower in both properties, so of course his wines will be generally higher than the average.

The color of single malt scotch? Suggests premature aging to me. Still, Gewurz often gets blowsy and low in acidity, but for all the detractors, ZH usually manages to find some balance (even with the knob turned up to 11).

Gewurz, even with residual sugar can have a distinct bitterness on the finish that I have heard seasoned tasters think this was alcohol, "because it was on the finish hitting the back of the tongue".

Hey, that could be it. I'm no expert. And while I understand that ZH wines may divide tasters upon style preferences, and while I also understand that this wine was not a "terrible" wine, it still seemed a bit out of balance - alcohol, bitterness, whatever - and therefore deserved some Finicky Demerits in my book.

The color of single malt scotch? Suggests premature aging to me.

Perhaps a slight exaggeration on my part. Because I did think it was a bit too dark upon first pour, but that was a function of the light, and closer examination revealed that it was within acceptable bounds. For superripe gewurz with 5 years of age. And the acidity was fine, again, for gewurztraminer. The damn sucker was just Hot.

Gewurz does tend to be a high alcohol variety. But I'm with you in that I find their notion of ripeness well beyond mine -- even in lower alcohol versions I often get the impression of stewed fruit.

Gewurz, even with residual sugar can have a distinct bitterness on the finish that I have heard seasoned tasters think this was alcohol, "because it was on the finish hitting the back of the tongue"

Be that as it may, IMO 15,5% is too much.

Bill, based on what? YOUR ideal of what this wine should be? OK, but realize that that is your opinion, trumpeted by certain British critics. I feel there is no magic ideal alcohol level for a particular grape variety. If I find the alcohol balanced by the richness and acidity, I like the wine fine. Arbitary cut off alcohol numbers seem to me, at least, odd. What level would you find acceptable?? 14?? 13??? 15??? By itself, this seems so odd to me. Context is all.

Bill, based on what? YOUR ideal of what this wine should be? OK, but realize that that is your opinion, trumpeted by certain British critics. I feel there is no magic ideal alcohol level for a particular grape variety. If I find the alcohol balanced by the richness and acidity, I like the wine fine. Arbitary cut off alcohol numbers seem to me, at least, odd. What level would you find acceptable?? 14?? 13??? 15??? By itself, this seems so odd to me. Context is all.

Harry, I simply do not enjoy high-alcohol wines. I also have yet to find a wine with 15,5+ degrees of alcohol that has anything even approaching acid balance (I doubt very much the Gewurztraminer in question had much acid.) I've had the pleasure of visiting Olivier Humbrecht at ZH and I even like many of his wines -I dare say more than most people on this board -but while I appreciate modern Alsatian wines for their power and extract (Germany and Austria certainly play the finesse game better), I have to draw the line somewhere. I have certainly had wines weighing in at 14%+ that I thought were very good, but more often I find them hideous and 'Frankensteinian' (white wines in particular), which is why you won't find any at my house. I understand your argument, but just because you throw two tons of extract, tannin, and fruit on the other end of 4000 lbs of alcohol, doesn't mean the wine is good.

[David M. Bueker]

Harry, I simply do not enjoy high-alcohol wines. I also have yet to find a wine with 15,5+ degrees of alcohol that has anything even approaching acid balance (I doubt very much the Gewurztraminer in question had much acid.) I've had the pleasure of visiting Olivier Humbrecht at ZH and I even like many of his wines -I dare say more than most people on this board -but while I appreciate modern Alsatian wines for their power and extract (Germany and Austria certainly play the finesse game better), I have to draw the line somewhere. I have certainly had wines weighing in at 14%+ that I thought were very good, but more often I find them hideous and 'Frankensteinian' (white wines in particular), which is why you won't find any at my house. I understand your argument, but just because you throw two tons of extract, tannin, and fruit on the other end of 4000 lbs of alcohol, doesn't mean the wine is good.

But it really is all about balance. I go back to just Saturday night and a bottle of 1997 Brundlmayer Gruner Veltliner Alte Reben with a stated 14.5% alcohol on the front label - no trace of it even being there. This wine was balanced and utterly drinkable. At a table full of wine geeks (many also alcohol averse) it was widely praised. I didn't even look at the label on the bottle for the alcohol level until Sunday night when a question was raised about higher alcohol in GV on anotehr forum.

Higher alcohol wines can be balanced. Does the alcohol potentially skew the equation against them? Sure. But acidity can do the same thing - skew the balance of a wine into unpleasantness. Also on Saturday night I had a 1996 Pommard from d'Angerville that had way too much acid for its fruit and was very unpleasant.

I am mostly alcohol averse. I'm not a fan of higher alcohol wines. But balance is the key, and some (not nearly all) higher alcohol wines have that balance.

But it really is all about balance.

I can't remember who brought up the comparison (I'm sure someone will remember), but it isn't all about the balance: a great aged single malt whisky will be balanced, but I still don't want that as my drink at dinner.

FWIW, I think it is usually too simplistic to talk about just the alcohol as the culprit. I find that when the alcohols go too high, the stylistic whole - surely because of the interconnectivity - is more to blame. Sometimes, like with tonight's Lagier-Meredith Syrah '00 and a few of ESJs, high alcohol does work since it doesn't show and the holistic experience isn't one of gobbiness, but, surprisingly, of classical restraint. But this sort of exception is IME rare.

-O-

[David M. Bueker]

FWIW, I think it is usually too simplistic to talk about just the alcohol as the culprit. I find that when the alcohols go too high, the stylistic whole - surely because of the interconnectivity - is more to blame. Sometimes, like with tonight's Lagier-Meredith Syrah '00 and a few of ESJs, high alcohol does work since it doesn't show and the holistic experience isn't one of gobbiness, but, surprisingly, of classical restraint. But this sort of exception is IME rare.

-O-

Otto - you're talking about balance.

Otto - you're talking about balance.

To a degree, yes, but what I tried to get across was a bit more nuanced than what that word suggests. I just can't think of how to rewrite what I wrote so that it would be more obvious...

[David M. Bueker]

Otto - you're talking about balance.

To a degree, yes, but what I tried to get across was a bit more nuanced than what that word suggests. I just can't think of how to rewrite what I wrote so that it would be more obvious...

Well your comment about scotch goes into the personal preference arena. I have some friends who love to drink scotch with a meal.

The quote about whiskey is from Asimov (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/dining/10pour.html)

I'm with Otto. Yes, balance is critical and there are wines that pull it off. But they remain in the minority. All too often, pushing for ripeness throws things out of whack. I had a similar reaction to a much lower octane ZH recently:

• 1994 Zind-Humbrecht Riesling Brand - France, Alsace, Turckheim, Alsace Grand Cru AOC (9/22/2007)
  This showed better than the last bottle. The palate has tamed down and shows impressive minerality and restraint, but the aromatics still give the impression of over-ripeness. It's not quite volatile, but there's something about the aromatics that suggest heat, even though the stated alcohol level is not that high.

Posted from CellarTracker

[David M. Bueker]

Far be it from me to be a ZH defender (I have not bought a bottle of ZH since the '98 vintage - gave up), but I can't help but wonder if certain producers send up mental red flags causing people to almost automatically dislike a wine.

I've liked Riesling from Clos Hauserer in the past (which I think tends to get overlooked b/c of Alsace's bizarre regs) and bought a bunch of '94s on the basis of Parker's recommendation. Live and learn. In hindsight, I think I'm better off with them from cooler sites in cooler years like 95 and 01.

Far be it from me to be a ZH defender (I have not bought a bottle of ZH since the '98 vintage - gave up), but I can't help but wonder if certain producers send up mental red flags causing people to almost automatically dislike a wine.

Yup, I can't see a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 without dismissing it as overly alcoholic and unbalanced, usually to the point of teetering.

Mark Lipton

[David M. Bueker]

Far be it from me to be a ZH defender (I have not bought a bottle of ZH since the '98 vintage - gave up), but I can't help but wonder if certain producers send up mental red flags causing people to almost automatically dislike a wine.

Yup, I can't see a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 without dismissing it as overly alcoholic and unbalanced, usually to the point of teetering.

Mark Lipton

Witty but ultimately transparent.

I can't help but wonder if certain producers send up mental red flags causing people to almost automatically dislike a wine.

Perhaps. But in this case I went out of my way to order the wine, thinking it would be something "impressive" for my friend and I was curious myself. And it was impressive for the first few sips. Until I felt the burn. And then I checked the label.

But, I know ZH makes tons of wines, so I'm sure some pull it off better than others. I just don't usually purchase them because in most circumstances I prefer to put my money elsewhere.