WTN: 2005 Keefer Ranch Pinot Noir - AP Vin & Loring

• 2005 A.P. Vin Pinot Noir Keefer Ranch Vineyard - USA, California, Sonoma County, Russian River Valley (11/18/2007)
  Had next to the LWC ... Blind. The nose is slightly reduced. The aromatics would come and go. Interesting. Big Big cherry front palate. Ripe but still present tartness. The finish was long and heavy. I almost wanted it to end. With the food everything evened out better. Still needs time. (89 pts.)
  
• 2005 Loring Wine Company Pinot Noir Keefer Ranch Vineyard - USA, California, Sonoma County, Russian River Valley (11/18/2007)
  Had next to the AP Vin Keefer ... blind. Nose showed nicely. Concentrated. Toasty and not showing much alcohol. At first sip there is lots of sweet cherry. The middle and finish is a bit muddled. This still needs some time to resolve. (88 pts.)

Both wines were flawless and tasty but didn't move me to the next level. These wines need time. In 2 or 3 years I may find much more pleasure in them. But I am not sure Keefer is the place for me.

Cheers,

Jason

[David M. Bueker]

Thanks for these notes as well. I'll leave my few remaining bottles (1 AP & 2 Loring) of Keefer to rest a while.

I'm still trying to figure out what I do and don't like in California Pinot Noir terroir (yes I used that word). It seems every vineyard still changes too much year after year, with very little in the way of signature aromas or flavors. I would think this is a function of young vines still finding their depths and young wineries still finding their way.

So far I'm not a fan of Rosella's, and I am a fan of Brosseau. I'm on the fence with both Garys' and Clos Pepe (though I have been more impressed with Clos Pepe on a regular basis. Cargassachi seems like a good bet, but I have had too few bottlings. Rancho Ontiveros is not a favorite. I have too few data points on Keefer and Kanzler to decide as of yet.

I have the '04 and '05 LWC, but have yet to try either....sounds like I should continue to wait. Given all the good reviews I have seen for the KB Keefer, this is an interesting comparison.

[David M. Bueker]

I have the '04 and '05 LWC, but have yet to try either....sounds like I should continue to wait. Given all the good reviews I have seen for the KB Keefer, this is an interesting comparison.

I would be really careful on the 2004s. The balance is precarious IMO.

I would be really careful on the 2004s. The balance is precarious IMO.

Meaning they will never get better or I should really wait???

[David M. Bueker]

I would be really careful on the 2004s. The balance is precarious IMO.

Meaning they will never get better or I should really wait???

I think the more fat they lose the worse they will show. The 2004s are very whiskey-like for me. I much prefer the 2005s, even tasted blind.

I would be really careful on the 2004s. The balance is precarious IMO.

Meaning they will never get better or I should really wait???

I think the more fat they lose the worse they will show. The 2004s are very whiskey-like for me. I much prefer the 2005s, even tasted blind.

I am very worried about most 04s. I am not in love with the 05s but they clearly need sometime. The 04s just seem to be getting worse. Many already giving no pleasure.

J

So, J-man... you are tellling me the 43 bottles of '04 Pinot I have are mostly going to suck? Does this include Littorai, William Selyem, St. Innocent, Swan and Sea Smoke? Roar too??? Brewer Clifton? Arcadian?

I just checked my own CT scores on the '04s I have tasted...and they don't look that bad...some scores have been 91-92...and I have drunk some of these with... horrors!!.. Jason Hagen!!! Of course, you may not have liked these as much.. the '04 Littorai Les Larmes comes to mind

So, J-man... you are tellling me the 43 bottles of '04 Pinot I have are mostly going to suck? Does this include Littorai, William Selyem, St. Innocent, Swan and Sea Smoke? Roar too??? Brewer Clifton? Arcadian?

I just checked my own CT scores on the '04s I have tasted...and they don't look that bad...some scores have been 91-92...and I have drunk some of these with... horrors!!.. Jason Hagen!!! Of course, you may not have liked these as much.. the '04 Littorai Les Larmes comes to mind

You may be one who likes the 04s. It seems many do. As for the wines you listed ... they are all over the map. I am sure the Littorais will be great ... but I have only had 1 04 ... the Les Larmes ... and that is from Anderson Valley.

I think the problem 04s will be those made in a bigger style...like the wines I posted on in this thread. I am going through as many as I can with little success. And that included a Brewer-Clifton (going to try the Carg soon). The Sea Smokes are tasty but massive ... and a bit hot. I don't recall tasting any WS from 04 ... but if the 05s are alcoholic ... I would think the 04s would be. I would stick to Anderson Valley. Roar
Not many Arcadians released but I did taste the 04 SRH blend ... and it was pretty over the top. Swan I am sure is good. But have only tried the threesome one

The St Innocents will be fine ... Oregon will be fine. Had the 04 7 Springs the other night (you may have seen the note) and it was awesome.

Fact is 2004 may prove (in 15 years) to be one of the greatest vintages ever. With all that fruit. But I would think it would come down to the ones that had enough tannin and acid to survive. Cali pinot with tannin ... that is a pretty small group.

Try some 04s ... from the big boys (big wines).

Jason

Had the Cargasacchi Carg recently.. not good.. so maybe it is the bigger styles you are slamming.. though you do include the W-S....I liked both the Sonoma Coast and Central Coast bottlings a lot.. the latter in particular... so.. goes to show how palates differ...

Had the Cargasacchi Carg recently.. not good.. so maybe it is the bigger styles you are slamming.. though you do include the W-S....I liked both the Sonoma Coast and Central Coast bottlings a lot.. the latter in particular... so.. goes to show how palates differ...

Are you talking 04s? You had the 04 Carg Carg? I have never tried that. Like I say ... haven't tried the 04 WS IIRC.

But certainly palates differ.

J

All 04s...

Maybe we need a VLG, real or virtual, on 2004 CA Pinots....

It all sounds to me that we should consider doing CA PN over on Wine Focus early next year. Thoughts?

It all sounds to me that we should consider doing CA PN over on Wine Focus early next year. Thoughts?

Works for me!

J

Interesting thoughts. I generally do not connect with Brosseau or Clos Pepe, but really like RO and Keefer. A chacun son gout.

I have enjoyed the few '04s that I've tried and I've got high hopes for the LWCs, the Pisoni Pisoni, the WSs, the Rhys' and the Dehlingers. I suspect that they may outshine the '03s in a few years. For some reason the '03s in my cellar aren't holding up as well as I expected.