Fun Poll: When is wine's birthday?

[David M. Bueker]

Yesterday on the TalkShoe we got into a brief discussion about when is a wine's birthday. Do all vintage wines get a year older on January 1 like racehorses? Is it more like around harvest time (October in the NH, March in the SH)? How about based on release date? Bottling date?

What are your thoughts?

[David M. Bueker]

For what it's worth, I vote harvest time. That's when the wine is born IMO.

David, I agree that it is the anniversary of harvest.

The bottling date is not appropriate because the wine is not any less a wine simply because it's not being stored in a bottle.

The release date is inappropriate because it is totally up to the whim of the producer when a wine is released for sale.

-Paul W.

[David M. Bueker]

P.s. I'm trying to get Robin or Jenise to move this to its rightful wine forum place.

Hmmm ... well, yes in most cases I agree it's harvest date, but a couple of exceptions to ponder on and there could well be more:

1) Champagne/bottle fermented sparkling wine - surely an equally important 'birthday' is disgorgment date, which IMHO should be stated on the label too.

2) Vin Jaune (Jura) - not allowed to be bottled until 6 Years 3 months after harvest (i.e. January 7 years after harvest), and some producers wait longer, even up to 10 years after harvest - sometimes producers then say "wait ten years until drinking" and they mean 10 years after bottling, so arguably this is a 2nd 'birthday' or key date.

Then again, Paul wrote:

The bottling date is not appropriate because the wine is not any less a wine simply because it's not being stored in a bottle.

But the ageing process is entirely different after being bottled (essentially reductive even under cork) than pre-bottling, when it may be to a greater or lesser extent oxidative - quel horreur - I'm getting too technical already and it's only the first day of the year and so late at night (in France).

Perhaps it could be argued that all 'ageworthy' wines should have two birthdays?

I say harvest time - or thereabouts. But harvest varies depending on grape variety (here we harvest from Feb to June).

Still I'm thinking that a 2006 southern hemisphere wine, e.g. Sauvignon Blanc, is just about two years old in January 2008. In May 2008 it will definitely be two years old.

We could make arbitrary dates as someone suggested.

What about the autumn (fall) equinox as the date - ie. 21st March for SH wines, 21st September for NH wines? 21st March is the date the harvest here really gets into full swing.

But it doesn't mean, as with race horses, that grapes harvested prior to the autumn equinox turn one year old on the equinox of that year. They will always turn one year old the year following harvest.

Of course, only 'vintage' wines can really have birthdays.

Cheers,
Sue

Harvest date? Which one? Wines are often made from grapes picked at different times. It must be either the time of blending or after. Actually I think opening the bottle is quite analogous to the birth. It is only then you get to know what it will be like. Bottling is more like conception

[Robin Garr]

P.s. I'm trying to get Robin or Jenise to move this to its rightful wine forum place.

Looks like Jenise got there first!

Harvest date? Which one? Wines are often made from grapes picked at different times. It must be either the time of blending or after. Actually I think opening the bottle is quite analogous to the birth. It is only then you get to know what it will be like. Bottling is more like conception

I would have thought the fermentation - when the yeast (either cultured or wild) starts the transformation of grapes to wine - was the conception AND the birth.

Bottling is just the packaging, the clothes it puts on long after its birth.

Cheers,
Sue

[David M. Bueker]

To me bottling is like "graduation" from elementary school.

The disgorgement date for Champagne is a very interesting point, but if we consider vintage Chamapgne isn't the year of harvest just as if not more important? Is a 1996 Champagne 10+ years old now, or is it only 3 years old if it was disgorged in January 2005?

Lots of interesting thoughts though.

To me bottling is like "graduation" from elementary school.

The disgorgement date for Champagne is a very interesting point, but if we consider vintage Champagne isn't the year of harvest just as if not more important? Is a 1996 Champagne 10+ years old now, or is it only 3 years old if it was disgorged in January 2005?

Lots of interesting thoughts though.

I would say a 1996 vintage Champagne is still 10+ years. We will talk about 1996 being a great year for vintage Champagne because of the fantastic acidity achieved from the vintage - or whatever reason it was a great year. We will not talk about 2005 being a great year for disgorging.

Put it this way ... On 31 Dec 2016, when we are drinking 1996 vintage Champagne (wouldn't that be a treat), we will hopefully be saying how wonderful the wine is for a 20-year old wine.
No-one will care when it was disgorged. No-one will say, "but hang on, it was digorged in 2005, therefore it is only 11-year old Champagne". Not at my place, they won't.

Cheers,
Sue

[David M. Bueker]

I completely agree.

What about Amarones? The grapes are harvested then a drying or a process called raisinate is performed. The length of this drying process will depend on the producer and quality of the fruit at harvest. This drying process also plays a role in deciding what the finished wine is going to taste like.
Technically I agree with Sue, sometime during alcoholic fermentation, when a given percentage of alcohol is obtained the grape juice now becomes wine and its aging begins. But then again I also agree with Steve when one blends A and B together to create AB it evolves and tastes total different then A and B by itself. But remember this; it’s the quality of the fruit at harvest and skill and knowledge of the winemaker which will determine the quality and aging potential of the wine. So IMHO the birth date of a wine is its “harvest date”.

Salute

So by most people's definitions any FG Bordeaux of a particular vintage would have multiple birthdays. Even the Queen (of England) only has two! Perhaps it would be simpler if, like the Queen, wines had an official birthday at some convenient time of year.

[David M. Bueker]

Steve,

I don't understand your point. I think what most are saying is that a 1st Growth Bdx would "age a year" around the September/October timeframe.

And we're not trying to be exact, just interested to see what folks think.

I opened a bottle of Saint Clair "Vicar's Choice" 2006 Sauvignon Blanc last night. I had bought it in October.

The back label had this sentence -- which I didn't notice when I bought it -- "Best enjoyed within 18 months of vintage date"

I've been puzzling to work out what they mean. The vintage date on the label is 2006, so 18 months from the end of 2006 is July 2008, but 18 months from the actual vintage in February/March 2006 is August/September 2007 -- i.e. before the date I bought it.

Anyway -- it was fresh zingy and delish, as expected.

Sue Courtney has some thoughts* on this. She says "winemakers, going right back to the 1980's and early 1990's, told us to drink [Sauvignon Blanc] young. They had an agenda because every year they had a new vintage to sell and bank managers to appease. The myth continues. And so we drink our savvies young. "

But she suggests "don't be afraid to hold your Sauvignon Blanc back for that extra year. Seems that some of the wines, at least, garner that extra edge of complexity and more dimension of flavour with the initial brash acids becoming softer and more seamlessly integrated."

Will do -- or did do, Sue

*On her blog at http://www.wineoftheweek.com/blog/index.htm#20080101

Steve,

I don't understand your point. I think what most are saying is that a 1st Growth Bdx would "age a year" around the September/October timeframe.

And we're not trying to be exact, just interested to see what folks think.

I'm not trying to be exact either - just entering into what seems to be quite a fun discussion which I had assumed was not entirely serious.

I'm saying that an FG Bord (and many other wines indeed) comprise grapes picked on different days. They are also blends of base wines fermented at different times. So if you use harvest or fermentation day as the definition, there will be no single birthday defined for the wine that you get in your glass. If you are happy with a wine having multiple birthdays or a fuzzy birthday, that's cool.

And I happen to like the idea of a wine gestating in vitro, ready to pop out and greet the world

[David M. Bueker]

Somehow I think we can live with a bit of fuzziness.

Perhaps in a manner similar race horses, northern hemisphere wines should have October 1 designated as their 'birthday.'

Great fun question. James Bond has a bit to teach us:

When M and 007 meet with diamond expert Sir Donald Munger, Sir Donald offers them both a glass of sherry. M declines (citing doctor’s orders), while Bond accepts. After taking a sip, Bond remarks, “Pity about your liver sir. An unusually fine solera. Fifty-one, I believe.” M tartly replies, “There is no year for sherry, 007.” Bond adds, “I was referring to the original vintage, on which the sherry is based, sir—eighteen fifty-one. Unmistakable.” Sir Donald confirms Bond’s assessment: “Precisely.”
Diamonds Are Forever (1971).

David wrote:
Perhaps in a manner similar race horses, northern hemisphere wines should have October 1 designated as their 'birthday.'

There is an old tradition among the old time Italian winemakers that the contents of their barrels are “officially” turned into wine on All Souls Day- November 2. This is the day my Great Grandfather would securely bang in all his bungs of his barrels (before this time the bungs were loosely put into place).

Salute

[David M. Bueker]

Given all the history between wine and the church, it's not surprising that a tradition like that would exist. Thanks Victor.

All in the spirit of fun I thought I would vote for harvest time as the easiest since it works for all wines but then I thought about it in human terms and decided I would go for when it is first put into bottle, regarding the harvest and winemaking and elevage rather like conception and foetal growth with the bottling as the point at which the wine comes into its world [the bottle] i.e. is born.

I realise the logic might be considered compromised by e.g. vintage champagne which continues much of its ‘front-end’ winemaking in a bottle for years before it is finally bottled for sale – with RD versions even more so.
However I will stick with first bottling as my definition of birth with later development in the bottle characterised as the development from an infant to a mature adult. Champagne might be regarded as a premature birth in its first bottle under its crown cap.

Notwithstanding all my special pleading I would always refer to a wine by its date of harvest since that will be its universally accepted reference. Disgorgement date for champagne is certainly not unimportant since it tells one a lot about what you might be drinking but it would not be the ‘birth date’ for me.
I also understand the idea of ‘birth’ when the bottle is finally opened but then its life would be a remarkably short one so it might just as reasonably regarded as its date of death.

Bearing in mind that all definitions need to be qualified – the harvest isn’t one day, nor is bottling usually – and this was a piece of fun, I would regard the time of bottling as its theoretical birthtime but continue to refer to its year of harvest for all practical references.