We've upgraded! Important notices ...

[Robin Garr]

Hmmm, I have the eTech skin on (which I believe was the same skin I was using when I made the original request) and the only change I see is that now there is no WineLoversPage logo . . . and again no obvious link to get to the WineLoversPage front. Again, low priority, but it would be a useful link eventually (and one I suspect would beneficial for you in directing folks to other parts of the site).

Ahh ... altenate "skins."

Keith, this is going to be an ongoing issue, I'm afraid. We make a few alternate "styles" available for those who for one reason or another feel unhappy about the look of the default forum style. But this is problematic, because any changes and modifications to the software are guaranteed only in the default skin. As time goes by, the alternate forms will have more and more variations from the standard. The problem here, frankly, is that modifying all the skins is a time-consuming clerical chore, and since we're all volunteering our time and effort for the good of the group, we pretty much have to prioritize.

I'll take a look at the setup this afternoon and see if I can easily modify more of the skins - and I'll start with eTech, which seems to be popular. But everyone should be aware that if you choose to use a "skin" other than the default (prosilver), there's some risk that modifications will never reach you.

[Robin Garr]

1. on the previous system, I could read messages without logging in when I got an email that there was a new message on WLDG. Now I have to log in to read messages. Is that the way it's supposed to be, or is there an option on the User Control Panel that allows me to read messages without logging in?

Bob, I need to think about this and maybe do a little testing. I don't personally notice this problem, but that may be because I stay logged in all the time and always have a forum session open in a tab of Firefox. Do you keep the "stay logged in " option checked in your browser? Do you leave the forum open in one of your browser tabs at all times? If you don't have the forum open and aren't logged in, then clicking on a "you've got mail" link should reasonably require you to log in. But if you already have the forum up and running, then it should not. I'll test, and revert.

2. I see only one Reply button on the default skin. My memory is that I could reply to specific Replies in a thread, rather than to the thread as a whole. I've assumed without knowing that doing so on the old system meant an email would be sent to the person whose Reply I was responding to. Is that different in the new version?

This goes back to "threading." Technically, clicking REPLY posts your reply to the first message in the topic. The old software put a reply button on every post, but this was actually misleading, and because we had the threading modification installed, made the threads extremely confusing to those few people who used the threading mod. I'm trying to explain this clearly: The old forum gave the impression that you were replying to a specific message within a thread, but you were actually replying to the first message in the thread.

To ensure continuity of discussions, it is MUCH better to use "Quote" to reply to a message (and then, ideally, take a moment to clip out some of the back-quoted text) so everyone can see the specific comment to which you are replying. The REPLY button is much more rudimentary, does not provide continuity in the conversation, and it's my theory that the developers deliberately de-emphasized it in an effort to encourage folks to use "Quote" instead.

Is there a way to get the multi-thread feature that existed in the old software? (I think it was the button that said "thread view")

I liked that, but if not, no big deal, everything seems pretty good otherwise.

One thing I do like is that this software remembers what I didn't view on previous days, whereas under the old software, anytime I exited out of Firefox, it assumed I'd read everything that had been previously posted.

Whoops, I see you answered my question in the post directly above mine (which I hadn't read because I forget to click to the third page). As Emily Litella said, "Never mind."

"Bob, I need to think about this and maybe do a little testing. I don't personally notice this problem, but that may be because I stay logged in all the time and always have a forum session open in a tab of Firefox. Do you keep the "stay logged in " option checked in your browser? Do you leave the forum open in one of your browser tabs at all times? If you don't have the forum open and aren't logged in, then clicking on a "you've got mail" link should reasonably require you to log in. But if you already have the forum up and running, then it should not. I'll test, and revert."

Robin, I use Firefox and come to WLDG through Front Page each time. I log out each time so that when I log back in I can read messages new since the last time I logged in. Then I log out again when I leave WLDG, again to get just the new messages next time I log in.

When I come to WLDG from WLP I can read all messages without being logged in -- I can't see what the new one's are of course since WLDG doesn't "know" who I am. For some reason local to my system, the automatic sign in doesn't work on my computer -- that's true for a number of sites -- everything from Atalantic to WSJ to OED and not a WLP/WLDG issue.

Whatever, my question was just curiosity. A simple user fix on my end is to delete the email notices and go to WLDG through WLP as usual; the email noticed Message will be included among the New Messages.

"The old forum gave the impression that you were replying to a specific message within a thread, but you were actually replying to the first message in the thread."

Ah ... interesting. I was always trying to reply to specific people's Messages so they would get an email message about the Message. Thanks. I'll learn the Quote system.

I've found my aging fingers and brain like to QUOTE stuff manually because I use the manual quote system so much elsewhere on the internet -- in Google books, my own writing, Amazon and other reviews, etc. I understand the functionality of the Quote system here, and since I'm around once in awhile, it's worth spending a few minutes and learning how to use it "correctly".

Thanks, Robin -- everything looks fine to me, and thanks for making the WLP logo take me back to the Front Page.

[Robin Garr]

By the way, folks ... although we can no longer keep the live chat counter on the forum page, it is still alive, and you can check it at any time by saving and bookmarking this link:
http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/vil ... nter.phtml

Exciting time saving discovery; if you click on the little box after the description of the last thread on the Board Index page, you go directly to the last Reply in a Thread:

by Robin Garr View the latest post
on Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:14 pm

There's a little box that I can't duplicate, but it's there in real life and fast as lightning.

[Robin Garr]

Exciting time saving discovery; if you click on the little box after the description of the last thread on the Board Index page, you go directly to the last Reply in a Thread:

by Robin Garr View the latest post
on Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:14 pm

There's a little box that I can't duplicate, but it's there in real life and fast as lightning.

Bob, I'm sorry I didn't mention that. It's not new, the old forum had that same thing.

Just to make sure you know this, have you noticed the similar little folder icon on the LEFT side of some thread topics on the forum page? That supposedly takes you to the first NEW post in a thread. If you don't know this, I strongly recommend playing around with it. You may be delighted.

Just to make sure you know this, have you noticed the similar little folder icon on the LEFT side of some thread topics on the forum page? That supposedly takes you to the first NEW post in a thread. If you don't know this, I strongly recommend playing around with it. You may be delighted.

That one baffles me Robin; clicking on the url or if there are page numbers, on the page number, seems to take you to the first Message in the thread or on the page in question.

Never discovered the last Message option on the old system, so this is a delightful dividend for all of your and ForumAdmin's hard work. Thanks again. Bob

Exciting time saving discovery; if you click on the little box after the description of the last thread on the Board Index page, you go directly to the last Reply in a Thread:

by Robin Garr View the latest post
on Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:14 pm

There's a little box that I can't duplicate, but it's there in real life and fast as lightning.

Bob, I'm sorry I didn't mention that. It's not new, the old forum had that same thing.

Just to make sure you know this, have you noticed the similar little folder icon on the LEFT side of some thread topics on the forum page? That supposedly takes you to the first NEW post in a thread. If you don't know this, I strongly recommend playing around with it. You may be delighted.

Bob R/Robin, where do I look for that folder icon please? All I see is the circle with a tick. Thanks.

Bob R/Robin, where do I look for that folder icon please? All I see is the circle with a tick. Thanks.

Bob, the one I'm talking about is on the right side, right after the name of the last poster.

Here's a copy of what I saw before I came here:

by Bob Parsons Alberta. [View the latest post]
on Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:00 pm

The bracketed stuff doesn't look like that to you or me, just to the computer; to me it looks more like a piece of blank paper with an arrow pointing down from t he bottom right corner of the sheet of paper.

Regards, Bob

Bob, I need to think about this and maybe do a little testing. I don't personally notice this problem, but that may be because I stay logged in all the time and always have a forum session open in a tab of Firefox. Do you keep the "stay logged in " option checked in your browser? Do you leave the forum open in one of your browser tabs at all times? If you don't have the forum open and aren't logged in, then clicking on a "you've got mail" link should reasonably require you to log in. But if you already have the forum up and running, then it should not. I'll test, and revert.

Robin, what I don't understand is if you are always logged in, will the [View new posts] button work?

If so, "new" from what point in time?

If I choose the always logged in option, I get a long list of posts since the last time I logged on, unless I mark the Messages read. Logging off and on again shows just the new messages since I last logged off -- many less messages and less work while I'm reading Messages.

What am I missing?

Regards and thanks, Bob

PS: I'm being a good boy, you'll note, and learning to use the [Quote] button. B.

[Robin Garr]

newicon.jpg

Robin, what I don't understand is if you are always logged in, will the [View new posts] button work?

Bob, the best way to learn this is to play around with it, but the short answer is yes, sort of. First, even if you stay logged in all day, when people post new messages and topics, when you periodically refresh your browser, you will still see the new ones. Older "new" posts will go away at night or when you shut down the computer (or your browser window) and then return later. ("Always logged in" is poorly phrased in the software. It would be more accurate if it said "Log me in automatically when I come to the forum.")

If so, "new" from what point in time?

Since the last time you opened your browser, I think. If you'll practice with it, I think you'll discover the difference between the "new messages" icon on the left (circled in the image above) and the "last post in thread" icon on the right. They're both useful, but different.

If I choose the always logged in option, I get a long list of posts since the last time I logged on, unless I mark the Messages read. Logging off and on again shows just the new messages since I last logged off -- many less messages and less work while I'm reading Messages.

What am I missing?

I may be wrong about this, but I sense that you may not have fully discovered the "new messages" icon on the left. Give it a try, and let me know! (And notice, by the way, that for some reason - at least for me in the OLD software - it was not fully reliable. Sometimes it didn't take me to the exact last post I had read - it pays to poke around - but it usually came close. The new software may be better. I don't really use this functionality much because I generally just go to the newest post and then skim backward from there to see if there are any other posts I missed.

Bob, I can speak to that.
I am set to be automatically logged in each time I return.
So, for instance, this morning, I navigated to the site, and clicked the "new posts" link. I got a long list of posts. I open the ones I want to read.
Then, I navigate away, to read the NY Times.
When I come back to WLDG, and hit "new posts" again, there will be new posts on top of the list, but the new posts from this morning will still be in the list, further down. If I shut down my browser, go out for a cup of coffee, and return, those older posts will be gone.

Or something like that.

I may be wrong about this, but I sense that you may not have fully discovered the "new messages" icon on the left. Give it a try, and let me know! (And notice, by the way, that for some reason - at least for me in the OLD software - it was not fully reliable. Sometimes it didn't take me to the exact last post I had read - it pays to poke around - but it usually came close. The new software may be better. I don't really use this functionality much because I generally just go to the newest post and then skim backward from there to see if there are any other posts I missed.

OK, now I remember -- I went through all this when we went from to the earlier version of this software originally. The way it worked then, and may work now -- I'll experiment and add a PS whichever it is -- is that the New Posts start from either (a) when you log off or (b) when you refresh your browser. So, if you are always logged on, you can clear the New Posts by refreshing the screen showing all New Posts on the list. That used to start a new list of New Posts.

I chose to always log off because I like to see what folks are up to on the Front Page. But from time to time I've cleared the New Post list when, for example, I've come back from a long trip, read through all the New Posts I want to, and then want to stay on WLDG to post Posts of my own -- maybe for an hour or two.

If I refreshed after reading, and before adding Posts, I would find a new list of new Posts, the ones I just made as well as any Posts that other people have posted since I refreshed the browser.

All the pretty colors have been confusing me. [Or something.]

Regards, Bob

PS: Later after experimenting:

There appears to be a difference between the two versions of the software: refreshing the browser doesn't clear the list of New Posts in this version of the software, or at least it didn't a couple of minutes ago.

So, if I've got it right, I need to log out and then log back on again to get a list of new New Posts -- option b described above doesn't seem to work.

Not a big deal for me, since option a was the one I almost always used by choice in the past anyway.

Regards, Bob

Bob, I can speak to that.
I am set to be automatically logged in each time I return.
So, for instance, this morning, I navigated to the site, and clicked the "new posts" link. I got a long list of posts. I open the ones I want to read.
Then, I navigate away, to read the NY Times.
When I come back to WLDG, and hit "new posts" again, there will be new posts on top of the list, but the new posts from this morning will still be in the list, further down. If I shut down my browser, go out for a cup of coffee, and return, those older posts will be gone.

Or something like that.

That makes sense, John.

When you shut down your browser, you are logging out as far as the WLDG system is concerned. When you come back, you are automatically logging on again, and so the New Post list should start from when you shut down your browser -- i.e. logged out.

There's a local computer glitch on my machine that will not allow me to log in automatically -- that's true not only on WLDG but on a number of other sites, including WSJ, Atlantic, Purple Pages, and others. However, it does work for some sites -- NYTimes, Therapy come to mind.

Regards, Bob

I've noticed (on January 7th) a much faster loading time than previously. I hope that continues.

[Robin Garr]

I've noticed (on January 7th) a much faster loading time than previously. I hope that continues.

I think that may be slightly due to the new upgrade and mostly due to the new upgrade forcing us to lose the load of the "how many users in Chat" counter.

I've noticed (on January 7th) a much faster loading time than previously. I hope that continues.

I think that may be slightly due to the new upgrade and mostly due to the new upgrade forcing us to lose the load of the "how many users in Chat" counter.

Go ahead! Kick a chat counter when he's down!

[Robin Garr]

Go ahead! Kick a chat counter when he's down!

Nay, not so, sirrah! I mean Syrah!

Try saving and bookmarking this link.
http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/vil ... nter.phtml
Whenever you feel lonely, just click it. It still works, you just have to know where it is.

Go ahead! Kick a chat counter when he's down!

Nay, not so, sirrah! I mean Syrah!
Try saving and bookmarking this link.
http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/vil ... nter.phtml
Whenever you feel lonely, just click it. It still works, you just have to know where it is.

I know. I saw your note further above and did already. Still, it's sad to see my old friend go even if he was clogging the pipes. What can I say? I'm sentimental.

[Robin Garr]

I'm sentimental.

I generally go the igneous route myself, but at least we can gang up on those stupid metamorphs.

I think that may be slightly due to the new upgrade and mostly due to the new upgrade forcing us to lose the load of the "how many users in Chat" counter.

In last 3 days, I've not been mysteriously logged out, everything loads quickly and cleanly, and functions well. Since the chat counter applet was installed, the WLDG was the biggest PITA site of the maybe a dozen I visit daily. Now it works like a charm. Sorry if some miss the chat counter, but it seems more logical to have it as you do now- available for those who want it, but not part of the default. Thanks Robin and SuperFA!