The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Michael Malinoski

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

889

Joined

Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:11 pm

Location

Sudbury, MA

TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Michael Malinoski » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:40 pm

These are notes from a relatively impromptu get-together at a friend's house a few weeks back. He cooked up a storm and we tried to find some wines to match.

2002 J.C. Pichot Vouvray Domaine le Peu de la Moriette. This opens with some funk on the nose but quickly settles down to reveal notes of lemon peel, lanolin, dark honey, soft chalk and nutmeg. It is moderately dry on the palate, but with a bright squirt of almost sweet citrus fruits (pineapple, grapefruit) and browned apples drizzled with lemon. It is medium-bodied, slightly oily in texture, and offers spicy, generous layers of flavor.

2000 Trimbach Riesling Alsace. Notes of wet slate, beeswax, lemon peel, pine, kerosene and yellow pixie stick are found on the nose. In the mouth, it is crisply metallic with bright, almost jangly acidity lifting up the fruit. It is lighter-bodied and a touch austere, with a finish of white pepper and graphite.

2006 Chateau du Plessis Muscadet de Sevre-et-Maine Sur Lie. This wine is a very pale color and has a wide open bouquet of grapefruit, sea foam, lime pith and sweet concentrated tropical fruits. In the mouth, it is light and crisp, with grapefruit, minerality, melon and sea salt. This was a nice pairing with the sea scallops.

2003 Kistler Chardonnay Dutton Ranch Russian River Valley. The nose changes a lot over the first 20 minutes or so, revealing at times notes of smoke, bosc pear, lees, lemon and drawn butter. In the mouth, it is leesy-textured with good concentration, and with a soft layering. There is a gentle acidity that brings some freshness to the long, chalky, creamy finish.

2003 Ramey Chardonnay Hyde Vineyard Napa Valley Carneros. I really like the deep, complex and inviting nose of cool minerals, sharp lemon zest, peach pit, sweet tropical fruits and creamy custard. In the mouth, it is sharply powerful but in a surprisingly compact and somewhat metal-tinged package. It is tight and spicy, with a spiny backbone right through to the fresh finish.

2005 A.P. Vin Pinot Noir Rosella’s Vineyard Santa Lucia Highlands. The color here is on the pale ruby side. Aromatically, it offers up notes of dried cherry, brambly berries, dried stems, and wet autumn leaves. It is wild-fruited and brambly, yet gently tangy on the palate, and seems to float effortlessly toward the finish.

2004 Morgan Pinot Noir Rosella’s Vineyard Santa Lucia Highlands . Gentle red fruits and chalk, along with wild herbs, dried flowers, soft cola, spices, and later on, black cherry aromas weave in and out on the nose. It is a bit richer than the A.P. Vin in the mouth, with a more rounded palate feel and offers up a solid spice palette on the darkly tangy finish.

2005 Siduri Pinot Noir Amber Ridge Russian River Valley. The color is a cloudy dark ruby. Aromas of black cherry, cola, red raspberry compote, toasted brown spices and pine needle greet the nose. This is both creamy and sappy in the mouth, with red berries, cherries and spice flavors and a fine, long finish.

2001 Novy Syrah Rosella’s Vineyard Santa Lucia Highlands. This wine opens with fascinating aromas of roast beef, blackcurrant jam, dried plum and a generally inky, corpulent sensibility that eventually pulls in notes of fruitcake and lead pencil. It is rich and warm and darkly-fruited in the mouth, with dark cherry liqueur and spice flavors. It has good weight and very nice texture throughout. There are still abundantly gooey tannins that dry out a bit on the long, darkly toasted finish.

1988 Chateau Montelena Cabernet Sauvignon The Montelena Estate. This bottle is corked. Peter dumped it into a bunch of glasses stuffed with Saran Wrap and the wine actually lost (at least to my nose) the corked aromas entirely. In the end, this was actually a very nice wine! Lovely aromas of mint, eucalyptus, sandalwood, dark plums, cassis and dark leather waft up from the creases of the Saran wrap. In the mouth, it is soft and generous, but with sneaky fudgy tannins still making their presence known. There is good density of flavor to the black cherry fruit through the mid-palate, but it does tend to dry out toward the finish.

2002 Chateau Pichon-Longueville Baron Pauillac. The nose here shows very nice aromas of sweet smoke, patent leather and turned earth, with lots of savory fresh herb and meat notes underneath. It is fresh on the palate, with taut black fruits and defining structure leading to a tangy, mineral-tinged finish. The tannins grow and grow throughout the evening. All in all, it is pretty much the same as I remember from a bottle 5 months ago—wait a few years to try again.

1997 Chateau St. Jean Cabernet Sauvignon Cinq Cepages Sonoma County. This wine has a very nice bouquet that seems to grow and deepen, while growing more complex with time in the glass. My notes indicate aromas of dark raspberries, sweet cherry pie, smoked meat, dried blood, campfire smoke, soft leather, warm red currants and faint cedar and incense notes. In the mouth, it shows a lot of red currant flavor to go along with spiced berries, chalk and cedar. It has good intensity without being too big or overdone. Still, I think this will be better in a few years’ time, despite notes I’ve read suggesting it is either in the zone or going downhill. This was my WOTN, in which I stood alone, although it did garner 4 second-place votes.

At the end of the night, votes for white WOTN were split between the ’03 Ramey Hyde Chardonnay (3 votes) and the ’02 Pichot Vouvray (3 votes), with 1 vote for the ’06 Plessis Muscadet.

Red WOTN was the ’04 Morgan Rosella’s Pinot Noir (8 pts), followed by the ’97 CSJ Cinq Cepages (6 pts), the ’02 Pichon Baron (4 pts), the ’05 AP Vin Rosella’s Pinot Noir (2 pts) and the ’01 Novy Rosella’s Syrah (1 pt).

-Michael
no avatar
User

Peter M Czyryca

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

57

Joined

Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Peter M Czyryca » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:15 pm

I still can't believe that Saran Wrap removed the TCA and unleashed the fruit. I mocked those who posited that it worked, now I'm a believer. Amazing that Paul could still detect taint, and I thought I had a good sniffer.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34394

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by David M. Bueker » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:31 am

Thanks for the warning - hands off the '02 Pichon Lalande.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Michael Malinoski

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

889

Joined

Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:11 pm

Location

Sudbury, MA

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Michael Malinoski » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:04 pm

David, not sure about the Pichon Lalande (haven't had it since a taste at the winery in late 2006), but I agree that the '02 Pichon Baron could use a few years. It is certainly drinkable and can offer good pleasure now, but the tannins tend to grow over time and clamp down before too long. I don't think it is going anywhere too soon, so no harm in holding a bit.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34394

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by David M. Bueker » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:12 pm

oops... :oops:
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

42673

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Jenise » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:35 pm

Elaborate on the "Peter dumped it into a bunch of glasses stuffed with Saran Wrap " technique, please. Did SW go in each glass of wine? And how long did it take? I tried something along this line once to check the veracity of a similar claim and didn't find it made any difference, but IIRC the effective plastic was supposed to be a ziploc type bag vs the lighter cling film, and I rolled it and stuffed it into the bottle. I'm very impressed that you report success.

Love the description of the A.P. Vin. Recently bought, but haven't opened yet, my first AP Vin (though I don't think it's a Rosella's, a vineyard I've loved from others)--I'm expecting much pleasure.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Michael Malinoski

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

889

Joined

Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:11 pm

Location

Sudbury, MA

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Michael Malinoski » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:18 pm

Jenise, I had heard of this but never seen it done. I assumed you had to pour the wine through the Saran Wrap or something, but before I could even offer my thoughts on the subject, Peter wadded up big bunches of Saran and stuck them in some glasses and poured the wine over the top. I let mine sit a while and then pulled the wrap out (kind of squeegying the extra trapped wine out of the wad and into the glass--a potentially messy operation). I think that all that surface area of nooks and crannies actually might have helped. It is far from glamorous but for several of us it totally did the trick. One taster never did lose the TCA, but the rest of us (probably less sensitive to it) couldn't believe the difference.

On a side note, I later poured the wine out of the previously-Saraned glass and into a new glass, and the TCA re-emerged. I poured it back to the original, and all was restored to good-to-go. It was almost like the Saran Wrap had some sort of symbiosis with the glass, as well.

All in all, a very odd experiment but it made the wine taste good, which is all that matters! I've heard that people's mileage varies quite a bit with this, so I am curious to hear your stories if you get a chance to try it (not that I wish any corked bottles on you!).

Michael
no avatar
User

Matt Richman

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

623

Joined

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm

Location

Brooklyn, NY

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Matt Richman » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:48 am

What? Really? Now I can't WAIT for my next corked bottle so I can try this out!
no avatar
User

Bob Hower

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

288

Joined

Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:58 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Bob Hower » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:52 am

If you are interested, here is some more about using similar techniques for fixing cork tainted wine:
http://spiritofwine.blogspot.com/2006/1 ... iment.html
http://www.myspeakerscorner.com/forum/s ... &tid=65675
no avatar
User

Peter M Czyryca

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

57

Joined

Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Peter M Czyryca » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:08 am

Jenise wrote:Elaborate on the "Peter dumped it into a bunch of glasses stuffed with Saran Wrap " technique, please. Did SW go in each glass of wine? And how long did it take? I tried something along this line once to check the veracity of a similar claim and didn't find it made any difference, but IIRC the effective plastic was supposed to be a ziploc type bag vs the lighter cling film, and I rolled it and stuffed it into the bottle. I'm very impressed that you report success.
.


Jenise, I've heard the Saran Wrap needs to be the "Premium Saran Wrap" but never a zip lock baggie. For the record, we just used what was on hand, regular Saran Wrap, and it did the trick.

Perhaps for worse contamination, the premium really absorbs more of the TCA. Maybe I'll email Saran Wraps PR folks to see if they're aware, and the physics behind it.

But in our case, it took a fruitless, corked wine into an awesome glass of wine. Report back if you happen upon a corked bottle!
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10775

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:09 am

I believe that in the UK, there was a discussion about plastic bags from Safeways (the UK co.) doing this trick very well.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

42673

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Jenise » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:12 pm

Peter M Czyryca wrote:Jenise, I've heard the Saran Wrap needs to be the "Premium Saran Wrap" but never a zip lock baggie. For the record, we just used what was on hand, regular Saran Wrap, and it did the trick.

Perhaps for worse contamination, the premium really absorbs more of the TCA. Maybe I'll email Saran Wraps PR folks to see if they're aware, and the physics behind it.

But in our case, it took a fruitless, corked wine into an awesome glass of wine. Report back if you happen upon a corked bottle!


Wow, I'm like Matt--can't wait to try this! And it sounds like I'd better not count on my beloved Stretch-Tite working in the same way. I'll have to buy a box of Premium Saran Wrap (forgive me, Jim Baldwin!) to have on hand for my next corker. All of you couldn't be wrong.

Mike--really interesting how when you went back and forth between glasses, the taint reappeared. Says that the SW didn't actually remove the taint, it just somehow merely countered it.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34394

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by David M. Bueker » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:56 pm

I've tried the saran wrap thing three times - no effect. I really think that somehow the alcohol leaches something out of the plastic that masks the TCA, and I'm not sure I want to ingest whatever that something is.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11166

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Dale Williams » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:48 pm

actually Mark Lipton gave a fairly coherent explanation on another forum a while back. Apparently the "greasy polymers" absorb TCA. I believe there is someone marketing a product called Winerescue based on same chemistry. I've had varied results with the method. In a couole cases it worked really well, in another no noticable effect (I've basically put wads of Saran Wrap in a decanter). If it does work, it takes a little time, so a younger bigger wine has some advantages over a mature+ one.

I'd rather return a newer purchase, but worth trying if you have no recourse. We've started using Stretch Tite instead of Saran as our house wrap. I wouldn't try that in wine till I was sure that it was same polyethylene before I tried, some health concerns about PVC wraps touching food, I believe. Not sure what StretchTite's formulation is.

I've read some comments about wrap leaving a "plastic taste", but as wrap doesn't normally do that to food if I had to bet I'd go with that being a psychological rather than a physiological effect.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

42673

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Jenise » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:56 pm

Dale Williams wrote:I'd rather return a newer purchase, but worth trying if you have no recourse. We've started using Stretch Tite instead of Saran as our house wrap. I wouldn't try that in wine till I was sure that it was same polyethylene before I tried, some health concerns about PVC wraps touching food, I believe. Not sure what StretchTite's formulation is.

I've read some comments about wrap leaving a "plastic taste", but as wrap doesn't normally do that to food if I had to bet I'd go with that being a psychological rather than a physiological effect.


Some plastic wraps DO leave a plastic taste on food, though. Costco quit carrying Stretch-Tite for awhile, and the product that had in the interim imparted quite an icky flavor to foods, ditto something our local Food Co-op used for awhile to wrap cheeses. Stretch-Tite, in addition to having superior powers of cling, never has.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11166

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Dale Williams » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:53 pm

Sorry, I should have said I don't think Saran Wrap leaves a taste. It's certain types (pvc, or using certain plasticizers, I think) that can migrate to food.
no avatar
User

Michael Malinoski

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

889

Joined

Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:11 pm

Location

Sudbury, MA

Re: TN: AP Vin, Morgan, Siduri, Novy, CSJ, Pichon-B, Montelena

by Michael Malinoski » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:37 am

Jenise wrote:Mike--really interesting how when you went back and forth between glasses, the taint reappeared. Says that the SW didn't actually remove the taint, it just somehow merely countered it.


This is the most perplexing part to me, Jenise. I had a chemist (turned lawyer) friend of mine over for dinner last night and that part had his mind confused, as well. I'd love to hear a plausible explanation for that part of the equation.

-Michael

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, Amazonbot, ClaudeBot and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign