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WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

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Rahsaan

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WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Rahsaan » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:37 am

It was Sunday. We were hungry and thirsty. Larry Stein, Jon Cook and I convened at the Stupid’s Test Kitchen to see what Yaniger and JD would offer for our enjoyment.

Before any food was available, there were glasses of the 2006 Thürnhof Südtirol Goldmuskateller, which was a lovely brisk example of Spring Time wine. It would later go very well with a dish of fried artichoke, lemon, and asparagus, with exuberant Muscat pungency supported by just the right amount of layered texture (whatever that means!). I preferred it to the 2006 Bolognani Trentino Moscato Giallo, which was crisper, less substantial, and showed less character to my taste. A bit too lean and one-dimensional for me. Although it did have its fans at the table.

The white that was hard to beat was the 2006 Christophe Pichon Condrieu, which initially sparked a debate over how much oak had been employed, with some buttery notes that were not purely viognier. As the wine aired and warmed, the fruit rose to the occasion and by the end of the bottle was a lovely pudgy drink of Condrieu lace. I’m sure Larry will enjoy the rest of his bottles.

The purported theme of the evening was Southern French wines from the 1980s. But, our first red was served blind, which quickly gave everyone the impression of deviance. The sweet California fruit reinforced those perceptions, and revealing the label on the 1991 Ridge Zinfandel Lytton Springs confirmed matters. The sweet fruit was of course there, but it was working its way to mellowed maturity. Perhaps it will get there eventually. The Ridge was a wonderful match with the Cowgirl Creamery Red Hawk, a cheese that elicited plenty of Massengill jokes from Msr. Yaniger. Everyone’s a comedian and everything…

Waiting for dinner, we opened the 1989 Jean Deydier Châteauneuf-du-Pape Les Clefs d'Or, which had apparently received very Few Points on release. Huh. Who would’ve thunk it. This was very nice and plenty of sweet and Southern Fruit for my tastes, but I guess it was in that well-balanced and well-framed register that doesn’t often win Points. Not the most complex Châteauneuf, but it was plenty fun to drink.

Much more fun to drink in fact than the 1988 and 1986 Domaine du Trevallon which had way too much brett for me. I brought these bottles and was looking forward to them. But, the two vintages were very similar and not very appealing to me at all. Others seemed to derive more enjoyment than I did, making laudatory comparisons to Musar. That should tell all.

Instead, I took re-pours of the 1990 Mas de Daumas Gassac Rouge which was a big mouthful of dark black fruit framed by a very nice minty acid structure. This probably went well with the Man-Sized Pork Chops some of the others were eating, but I was focusing on the mushroom and pea risotto (Spring IS here I tell you)..

To cleanse the palate before – and after – Stuart’s flaming Habanero Sauteed Pineapple (he took no mercy at all), the 1995 JJ Christoffel Erdener Treppchen Riesling Auslese ** was a lovely lacy drink. We all thought it was peaking in a well-balanced not-too-heavy-on-the petrol moment, with enough fruit to still wrap around your tongue. But, at times it hinted at more to give. Who cares. Either way, it was fun.

As was the evening.
Last edited by Rahsaan on Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Cynthia Wenslow

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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Cynthia Wenslow » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:11 am

Pineapple and habanero! A match made in culinary heaven.
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Mark Lipton

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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Mark Lipton » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:24 am

Cynthia Wenslow wrote:Pineapple and habanero! A match made in culinary heaven.


Keep my pineapple pristine and uncooked, thank you kindly. To me, it's mango or peach with habanero, with lime a must-have addition.

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Rahsaan

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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Rahsaan » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:35 am

Mark Lipton wrote:Keep my pineapple pristine and uncooked, thank you kindly.


Really? I find it hard to get fully ripe pineapples in Our Temperate World. So for me, the sauteeing (or cooking in general) works quite well to bring out sugars and flavor. Similar thing with bananas.

Mangoes seem to have better distribution networks. Or something. Because I seem to find edible mangoes more often than edible pineapple. (Albeit rarely)

Habanero and peach? Interesting. Never thought of it..

I would say I'd try it this summer. But, I may still be reeling from last night's habanero.. :wink:

Oh, and to be precise, it was apparrently a spice made from a certain part of the habanero, or a certain kind of habenero. Something specific. If Stuart would make his way to this Wine Forum, he might enlighten us..
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Fredrik L » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:59 am

I´m with Rahsaan on this. I once found the most wonderful pineapple I had ever eaten in the island of Raiatea in French Polynesia. When I asked why this tasted so much better than anything I had ever found in a shop, they smiled and said that the ones destined for Europe and the US were picked two weeks before they were entirely ripe...
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Jamie Goode » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:07 am

Sorry about the bretty Trevallon, although I suppose this goes with the territory.

I like it in Musar, though. It seems to work in some contexts and not in others, and it isn't always completely clear why.
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David M. Bueker

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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by David M. Bueker » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:28 am

Brett seems to be the single most "personal" wine attribute. There's no way to predict who will love a wine that has a liberal dose of it, or who will hate wine that has the barest hint. I'm fairly brett tolerant, and yet some wines just turn my stomach with it. For me there has to be a real richness in the wine (e.g. Chateauneuf) to make it a complexity-enhancing positive attribute. For wines that depend on elegance and purity (e.g. Burgs) brett is a total turn off.
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Jamie Goode » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:37 am

When I was tasting the DRC 2005s, I had a horrible thought that I was getting some brett on the Grands Echezeaux. I'm sure this can't be the case, but it had a distinctive earthiness that I sometimes find with low level brett in Pinot.
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by David M. Bueker » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:10 am

Jamie Goode wrote:When I was tasting the DRC 2005s, I had a horrible thought that I was getting some brett on the Grands Echezeaux. I'm sure this can't be the case, but it had a distinctive earthiness that I sometimes find with low level brett in Pinot.


That's a lot of money to get brett.
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Cynthia Wenslow

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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Cynthia Wenslow » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:54 am

Mark Lipton wrote:To me, it's mango or peach with habanero, with lime a must-have addition.


Mark, I love those too. I make a peach-habanero jam that rocks.
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Dale Williams » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:58 am

Thanks Rahsaan for the excellent notes.

David M. Bueker wrote:Brett seems to be the single most "personal" wine attribute. There's no way to predict who will love a wine that has a liberal dose of it, or who will hate wine that has the barest hint. I'm fairly brett tolerant, and yet some wines just turn my stomach with it. For me there has to be a real richness in the wine (e.g. Chateauneuf) to make it a complexity-enhancing positive attribute. For wines that depend on elegance and purity (e.g. Burgs) brett is a total turn off.


Well, I've certainly had some Burgs with a little merde that I found lovely. But totally agree that brett can be a huge dividing line in whether people like a wine. It is not just a question of degree. There are many strains of brett (Jamie correct me if I'm wrong), which produce varying amounts of various odors. Many of us seem to have differing degrees of how we sense various compounds (and whether it bothers us or not). I think of myself as fairly brett tolerant, but the smell of raw sewage coming from a bottle of '88 Pape Clement (probably saw some warmth, not gotten heavy brett in previous bottles) last month made it undrinkable for me. Others said "what brett?"
Similarly, I've never run across a bottle of Havens Bourriquot that seemed bretty to me, another poster on the old WLDG said he considered himself brett tolerant, but that he found a consistent strain in the Havens reds that revolted him.

I'm guessing there is some biological reasons for this (just as with TCA tolerances, asparagus pee, etc).
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Mark Lipton » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:02 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
Mark Lipton wrote:Keep my pineapple pristine and uncooked, thank you kindly.


Really? I find it hard to get fully ripe pineapples in Our Temperate World. So for me, the sauteeing (or cooking in general) works quite well to bring out sugars and flavor. Similar thing with bananas.


True, young Rahsaan, it's not easy to get a truly ripe pineapple or banana. Indeed, on the mainland it may be nigh unto impossible to get a fully ripe pineapple. I'll settle for a passably ripe one, though. I just find that cooking removes the acidity that I love in a ripe pineapple, leaving something that to my palate (and I'd be shocked if it weren't true for your Loire-attuned one) tastes simply sweet (think of those oh-so-forgettable pasteurized pineapple juices, f'rinstance). Bananas are another story, one which will probably end badly soon with the threat of blight on the horizon.

Now, mangoes. You can get Mexican mangoes that are close to ripe, but lack most of what makes a mango so special. The pearl in the crown, the S/SE Asian mango, is almost impossible to find in a state even remotely close to ripeness and lacks the room-filling perfume that makes it impossible to smuggle them past customs :cry: But even those vaguely ripe and flavorful mangoes make a great background for a few habaneros, lime juice, onion and cilantro. Chopped and slathered over a grilled fish, it's pretty wonderful stuff...

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Rahsaan

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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Rahsaan » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:56 pm

David M. Bueker wrote: For me there has to be a real richness in the wine (e.g. Chateauneuf) to make it a complexity-enhancing positive attribute. For wines that depend on elegance and purity (e.g. Burgs) brett is a total turn off.


I seem to have similar preferences. There needs to be enough stuffing to "balance" the brett.
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Rahsaan » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:59 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:True, young Rahsaan, it's not easy to get a truly ripe pineapple or banana. Indeed, on the mainland it may be nigh unto impossible to get a fully ripe pineapple. I'll settle for a passably ripe one, though. I just find that cooking removes the acidity that I love in a ripe pineapple, leaving something that to my palate (and I'd be shocked if it weren't true for your Loire-attuned one) tastes simply sweet


I can see your point. And to be honest, I think I've purchased 2 pineapples in the past 8 years in the States, plus a few purchased for travel snacks when under duress, so it's not like I love sauteeing these creatures every night.

But, Stuart's dish was pretty good, and with all the liquor and spice involved in the cooking, it was hardly "simply" sweet :D

So, in the March lull after citrus and before strawberries, I may be trying this myself..
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Cynthia Wenslow » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:13 pm

Rahsaan wrote:Oh, and to be precise, it was apparrently a spice made from a certain part of the habanero, or a certain kind of habenero.


Best hab powder I have ever had is made by Jim Campbell of Mild to Wild Pepper in, of all places, Franklin, Indiana. His Smoked Red Savina is amazing. I always have a few jars of it around.

(Disclosure: No financial interest, but I consider Jim a friend and am having dinner with him Thursday night when he's in town for the Fiery Foods show.)
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Marc D » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:06 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote: For me there has to be a real richness in the wine (e.g. Chateauneuf) to make it a complexity-enhancing positive attribute. For wines that depend on elegance and purity (e.g. Burgs) brett is a total turn off.


I seem to have similar preferences. There needs to be enough stuffing to "balance" the brett.


For me, some of Breton's Cab Francs I have tried seem to have just the right amount of Brett to make it interesting, without being a turn off. I don't think of these as 'rich' wines per se, but the Brett still seems to add something.
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Re: WTN: Stupid Southern Wine

by Robert Reynolds » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:59 pm

Cynthia, why don't you grow, dry and then grind your own habs? That's what I do. :wink:
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