Hating on Bordeaux? I hate on Cali Pinot!

Since we were trashing Bordeaux the other day, I thought I would share something.

I have to admit it. I just don't like California Pinot Noir very much. I actively dislike that bright cherry cola flavor profile, especially when it gets really rich and thick and goopy. It's not that the wines taste like Syrah to me, either. I can intellectually appreciate "why" a Cult Pinot is "good" and merits raves. A friend opened a Santa Rita Hills Pinot Sunday night, and it was smooth and elegant and worthy of praise... but that particular flavor profile is just bleh to me.

There are exceptions-the Gary Farrell Pinot I tried the other day was more cranberry than cherry cola (and was far, far lighter in color than the other wines.) That weird funky mushroomy 16% alcoholic Mount Veeder Pinot from Dutch Henry was tastier to me than most prestige cuvees.

I can also appreciate Burgundies with more acid and funkiness than cherry cola flavor. I even like some Oregon Pinots which share the Burgundian character to some degree. Even Burgundy, though, if the flavor profile is closer to California and that ripe cherry cola flavor appears-don't prefer it. (Although Burgundy never gets as thick and goopy).

About 1.6% of my collection is Pinot. Why is my taste so flawed? I love really weird fermenting-in-the-glass French wines, why not Pinot? I like Pineau even. Am I hopeless? Must I be drummed from the family of Wine Hobbyists?

_________________________________________

Are there any wines that you all as a class or as a grape variety dislike? Any haters in the group?

I really don't think your taste is flawed, Brian. Haul your bike over to Dry Creek Grocery some time and take a ride along Westside Road. Or go down into the Russian River Valley and poke around on River Road, Piner Road, Mt. Olivet Road.

Just for starters. O:-)

Try Kalin.

Other than that, I agree with you.

Brian,
It's pretty clear you are mentally unbalanced and a danger to society, but there may be medications that could help. I urge you to seek professional help before you do harm to yourself or someone else.

You need to go see "Sideways." Six or seven times ought to do it.

I'd be more worried about excessive love of CA pinot noir.

But, that's just me.

I think most of Miles' problems stemmed from his love of CA Pinot.

[David M. Bueker]

My version is that I am completely over California Pinot Noir.

My problem with Cal pinot is only that it isn't Pinot as I know (or knew) it! But there are some pleasant wines that are called Pinot.
I blame Davis! They 'chose' the clones to plant and, although they may be disease resistant and profligate, they just don't taste like 'Pinot'; they taste of 'California'.
However, all is not (necessarily) lost.
Indulge me and find a bottling - any bottling - from the Sanford & Benedict VINEYARD (doesn't have to be the winery). This was planted with the Wente Clone - before Davis essentially outlawed it (by recommending others) from grafts from Mount Eden (which I believe was also the original Wente clone). Of course, Mount Eden is also a source. But there are multiple producers of Sanford & Benedict pinots, so it should be easier to find.

A few months back, I was at a dinner featuring Hitching Post wines - 5 pinots served and the S&B bottling showed an entirely different profile from the other 4. Sort of knocked me Sideways!

I can also appreciate Burgundies with more acid and funkiness than cherry cola flavor. I even like some Oregon Pinots which share the Burgundian character to some degree. Even Burgundy, though, if the flavor profile is closer to California and that ripe cherry cola flavor appears-don't prefer it. (Although Burgundy never gets as thick and goopy).

About 1.6% of my collection is Pinot. Why is my taste so flawed? I love really weird fermenting-in-the-glass French wines, why not Pinot? I like Pineau even. Am I hopeless? Must I be drummed from the family of Wine Hobbyists?

_________________________________________

Are there any wines that you all as a class or as a grape variety dislike? Any haters in the group?

No flaw to the above, just preferences and I tend to agree.

Something I do not like at all and never buy, CF from the Loire, too much green peppers and lacks balance, IMHO, but I am in the minority.

Walt

Thanks for the suggestions, all! My attempt to flamethrow failed, though

I did have an Oregon Pinot the other week-Patricia Green Old Vines-that I actually enjoyed. For $40 (I did not whip out the credit card) it had better be good, though!

[Jenise]

My version is that I am completely over California Pinot Noir.

Excuse me? I have read your praise of Pali and Arcadian in the not distant past, just to name two.

[David M. Bueker]

My version is that I am completely over California Pinot Noir.

Excuse me? I have read your praise of Pali and Arcadian in the not distant past, just to name two.

But I have not bought a bottle in about 1.5 years (last buy was in early fall 2006). Sure I like some few of them, but I have no interest in purchasing any more for cellaring or even casual drinking.

I buy more Burgundy (and wait and wait and wait) than Calipinot, but given the wide range of styles there are many that I really enjoy: Rhys/Alesia, Dehlinger, Williams-Selyem, Radio-Coteau, August West, usw. I admit that one of my New Years' resolutions was to buy fewer PNs this year. I've got to get some balance to my cellar.

Actually that might make a decent poll: What variety are you pulling back on and what are you replacing it with? More Trempranillo in place of Pinot Noir, for me.

[David M. Bueker]

More nothing in place of everything for me.

Serious pull back in 2008.

Just a contrary view from the southern branch of the family. We will continue to buy cali pinot as well as a few selected wines from Burgundy. It is just our preference.

Overall, Pulling back here, too. I'm way over-extended. I've cancelled some winery wine clubs, for example. Given that, won't be buying much California Cabernet this year. I don't really need any more Rhones, for the moment at least.

Many of my limited purchases seem to be trending to "natural" wines-often from the Loire, Savoie, obscure Central France (Auvergne, anyone). I am quite intrigued by Beaujolais right now.

I'm late chiming in on this, but it caught my eye

I was in Cali in the fall on a Cdn media trip, and I tasted hundreds of Pinots (and other wines) from Carmel south to Paso and then Sideways country. We ate at the Hitching Post and tried every one of their Pintos (I was not impressed by most of them, but I loved the resto) I have to say that, even though the pinots were smooth and round and easy, and impressed on first whiff with chocolate and cherry, none of them were as good as the Pinots I like in Ontario. They were too alcoholic and sappy. There was a sameness amongst 90% of them. And they are lousy with food, generally. Not enough acid and too much alc.

I had one old (10+) one that came from S&B - I forget the producer - he was a lone wolf who used to work at Sanford I think - - that was sort of Burgundian, but it was an oddity. i much preferred the Rhone varietals (like at Austin Hope and Tablas Creek) and Italian grapes down there.

I brought back a Morgan Double L ranch, from one of their best vineyards, i understand, and entered it in my brother's annual Pinot blind tasting (normally I bring Burgundy or Ontario or a ringer) hoping to win again for best wine. NOT! it was called out quickly as a sappy, high alcohol, too low acid, and probably unstable (very little aging possible) wine.

I didn't like it myself and didn't recognize it.

But I loved the scenery down there -- looking down to the Sea Smoke vineyard - gorgeous!

[quote="Craig Pinhey"]

I had one old (10+) one that came from S&B - I forget the producer - he was a lone wolf who used to work at Sanford I think - - that was sort of Burgundian, but it was an oddity. quote]

As I postulated in my previous post - the S&B vineyard is planted with a different pinot clone.
It's NOT an oddity. It's the 'real thing'.
It's the 'Davis Clones' that are the oddities (in terms of taste profiles)!
Davis is what leads to the Cali Pinot "hate" that started this thread. 'Bad' grapes/vines = bad wines.

That makes sese

I meant it was an oddity on the trip - I had no other wine like it.
I did have several other wines from that vineyard from other producers, but they were young wines.

I could dig out all my notes and list all the Pinots I tried if anyone cared...

Hi Craig,
Not sure that listing all your notes is worth the effort.
However, this is the 2nd (or 3rd) time I've raised the 'clone' issue in California - and I can't get anybody else to 'bite'. Not sure if I'm being ignored, or people just don't know.
Perhaps you can review your notes on younger S&B wines to see if there's any trends across the various producers that might either support or refute my speculation.
Thanks,
Alan.

Guillaume at Terroir Wine Bar in San Francisco said exactly that last night-choice of clones has led to a numbing sameness in California Pinot Noirs. So...you might be right. I would add the Curse of Davis. On the one had, science and expertise. On the other hand, many Cali wines taste the same, across the varieties????

On the other hand, many Cali wines taste the same, across the varieties????

Brian, I'll do you one better:

Jesus, does California produce anything exciting these days? Even when they taste alright, they are just so mind-numbingly boring. It is the VERY rare exception that makes me take notice.

Believe me, all they talk about is clones when we go on these tours (anywhere I go)

it starts to become blah blah blah after a while -- just let me taste the wine!

I totally believe you about the clones

we had an interesting tasting at Austin Hope (who make kickass Rhone style wines in Paso) where we did barrel samples of wines made from clones from various top Rhone vineyards like Hermitage, after just tasting local Syrah that was not from there

the differences were startling - much more austere, and tannic, and interesting