The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

Should Lorenzo Petroni be allowed to label his wine Brunello di Sonoma?

Yes?
6
50%
No?
6
50%
 
Total votes : 12
no avatar
User

Gary Barlettano

Rank

Pappone di Vino

Posts

1909

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:50 pm

Location

In a gallon jug far, far away ...

Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Gary Barlettano » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:34 pm

Here's the article: The Sipping News: A battle over Brunello. What do you think?
And now what?
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21878

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Robin Garr » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:44 pm

I'm on Petroni's side. Brunello di Montalcino from Sonoma? NEVER. Brunello di Toscano from Healdsburg? Geddadaheah!

But a named variety attached to its OWN terroir? That ought to be a firm, clean world-wide rule, not subject to politics. If Brunello di Sonoma can make a market for itself from estate grown vines, more power to it. And pour me another glass.

If we don't go this route, then await the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the Bordelais successfully proscribe the use of the name "Napa Cabernet Sauvignon" on Rutherford wines.

Varietal names: Here. Geographical names: There. Two simple, disparate systems. When we start linking them together, things get complicated.
no avatar
User

Mark Willstatter

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

447

Joined

Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:20 pm

Location

Puget Sound

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Mark Willstatter » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:33 pm

Far from being confusing, this is a wine label that actually has more information than usual. It contains both the name of the grape, Brunello (and this wine is, as I understand it, made from Sangiovese Grosso aka Brunello) and the place of origin, Sonoma. No one could possibly fail to understand where it comes from. In the same way that I think the folks at ZAP don't have a legal leg to stand on when they object to Italians labeling their Primitivo "Zinfandel", I don't see what there is here that should cause the Italians problems. Unless they're claiming exclusive use of "di" on wine labels, which seems like a real stretch.
no avatar
User

Ian Sutton

Rank

Spanna in the works

Posts

2558

Joined

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Location

Norwich, UK

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Ian Sutton » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:28 pm

FWIW I see it as cheeky and opportunistic. A bit like the Goats do Roam series. If they ever tried to import it to Italy I would expect it to be refused admission in the same way that Italians can't export Zinfandels to USA.

I suppose the big question is whether Brunello is the name of the wine of Montalcino, or the grape. Rosso di Montalcino is made of the same grape, but is ineligible for Brunello if it doesn't come from a designated vineyard. This suggests that there is more to it than just the grape, whose name is Sangiovese Grosso, with Brunello representing a specific wine made from it in a specific location. Amarone is also protected, representing grape mix, region and methods. It is plainly not as simple as regionality vs. grape variety. Joe Grilli (Primo Estate) in Australia has been prevented from mentioning 'Moda Amarone' on his back labels for his 'Joseph' Cab / Merlot. Likewise Masi (an Amarone producer) uses Corbec (Corvina+Malbec) for it's Amarone style in Argentina.

This field isn't simple and common sense doesn't always prevail. I guess what I don't know is the intent of the winery. Is this a hommage to Brunello, a publicity stunt or a cheap attempt to try and fool customers by using a name synonomous with a specific regulated wine in a specific regulated region? I suspect a bit of each. The Italians in the bordering region Emilia-Romagna would love to have Brunello Bolognese or Brunello di Modena, but are (IMO) rightly not allowed to trade on someone else's name. The mistake though was in Biondi-Santi not trademarking the name Brunello that they created, allowing others in the region to join in and cash in.

IMO the winery are doing something pretty underhand, but then so did Fairview with the Goats series. I'm even a bit saddened that people still use someone else's language to trade on their reputation. Maybe if they'd used Sonama Brunello, it might have been a less obvious stunt and might have even been accepted. What if a town called Monticello decided to market Brunello di Monticello? You can I'm sure see the shades of grey that are involved in this argument.

... and Gary. A damn fine troll, which I'm sure will generate some impassioned debate. 8)

regards

Ian
Drink coffee, do stupid things faster
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11871

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Dale Williams » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:05 am

Agreed, a great troll. I'm usually in the instaneous decision mode, but in this case I see both Robin's and Ian's points. Ultimately,iIt seems to me clear that this producer is trying to piggyback on the recent craze for BdM. Ian argued well. I'll disagree with him re Fairview, however. I have no problem with jokey names that don't cause confusion- I can't believe anyone seeing Goats do Roam or Goat-Rotie is thinking they are getting a Rhone wine. I can, however, envision someone who isn't especially into wine seeing "Brunello" on a winelist and thinking "wow, I've heard Brunello is supposed to be great." I voted no.
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21878

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Robin Garr » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:11 am

Dale Williams wrote:Agreed, a great troll. I'm usually in the instaneous decision mode, but in this case I see both Robin's and Ian's points. Ultimately,iIt seems to me clear that this producer is trying to piggyback on the recent craze for BdM. Ian argued well. I'll disagree with him re Fairview, however. I have no problem with jokey names that don't cause confusion- I can't believe anyone seeing Goats do Roam or Goat-Rotie is thinking they are getting a Rhone wine. I can, however, envision someone who isn't especially into wine seeing "Brunello" on a winelist and thinking "wow, I've heard Brunello is supposed to be great." I voted no.

Well reasoned, Dale. I in turn am feeling a little less of a fundamentalist on the issue, and obviously motive needs to be examined.

I still instinctively like my instant premise, though: Regulate geographical terms scrupulously, come down hard on "real" abuses, and try to keep the process as insulated as possible from politics; but be much more cautious about trying to regulate grape names. Cabernet, Napa Cabernet, Pauillac Cabernet ... if anyone manages to mount a marketing campaign that is confusing about those distinctions, I'd like to see how they do it.
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11871

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Dale Williams » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:27 am

Robin Garr wrote: Regulate geographical terms scrupulously, come down hard on "real" abuses, and try to keep the process as insulated as possible from politics; but be much more cautious about trying to regulate grape names. Cabernet, Napa Cabernet, Pauillac Cabernet ... if anyone manages to mount a marketing campaign that is confusing about those distinctions, I'd like to see how they do it.


I generally agree. It's just in this case they're NOT using the generally accepted grape name (Sangiovese), and the "di" makes it worse. AFAIK, the French have never objected to the various California wines that include "Dijon Clone" in their name (nor to the word Chardonnay although I believe it is actually a village in the Macon).

If this producer had wanted to name their wine Petroni "Brunello Clone" Sonoma Sangiovese, my vote might have been different.
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21878

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Robin Garr » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:15 am

Dale Williams wrote:It's just in this case they're NOT using the generally accepted grape name (Sangiovese), and the "di" makes it worse. AFAIK, the French have never objected to the various California wines that include "Dijon Clone" in their name (nor to the word Chardonnay although I believe it is actually a village in the Macon).

If this producer had wanted to name their wine Petroni "Brunello Clone" Sonoma Sangiovese, my vote might have been different.

Far as I'm concerned, Dale, you've made the case. Good work!
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

9000

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Paul Winalski » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:38 pm

Dale,

I think you've identified the appropriate balance here.

Brunello is the name of a particular clone of the sangiovese grape variety. Italy has granted DOCG status to this clone when grown in a designated region.

If a Sonoma producer wishes to grow this same clone in that soil, I have no problem with it being labeled "Sonoma Brunello", which is the proper way of saying it in English. "Brunello di Sonoma" I have issues with. It's not as bad as Sonoma white wine labeled "Chablis", but it smacks of the same unjustified and unsavory piggybacking on an established wine region's reputation.

If you're proud of the attributes "Brunello" and "Sonoma", then why the fake Italian? Stand on your own two feet, if you can. Or fall, if you can't.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Childless Cat Dad

Posts

35993

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by David M. Bueker » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:44 pm

agreed - the faux Italian is what pushes me over the edge. It becomes an intent to confuse (even if it isn't).

I voted no.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21878

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Robin Garr » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:49 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:agreed - the faux Italian is what pushes me over the edge. It becomes an intent to confuse (even if it isn't).

As a reality check, though, do you feel the same about Randal Grahm's Ca' del Solo line with its "Doonominazione di controllata" labels? Nobody takes them seriously - they're hilarious - and they are far closer to the mark of "consumer confusion" if anyone really wanted to take up that cudgel.
no avatar
User

Mark Willstatter

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

447

Joined

Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:20 pm

Location

Puget Sound

Re: Weekend Troll: Brunello di Sonoma

by Mark Willstatter » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:02 pm

I guess I'm not grasping the nuances here. "Brunello di Sonoma" should be illegal, "Sonoma Brunello" would be OK? It's hard for me to get that excited about the use of an Italian preposition. I mean, just imagine the scandal if an American winery used the French word for "castle" in their name :twisted: Abusing not a mere preposition but an actual noun! Now that would be, as Ian said, "cheeky and opportunistic", not to mention potentially deceptive. I don't have a problem with cheeky or opportunistic on wine label so long as there is no deception. Since I don't see any of that here, I still think the label in question is fine.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amazon, Amazonbot, ByteSpider, ClaudeBot, FB-extagent, Google AgentMatch, Patrick Martin and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign