$27.00 (USD) QBA? I'm confused

On the shelves of a couple of wine shops here (Eugene, Oregon) have a Clemens Busch QBA (no vineyard designation) for $27.00. I had a hard time putting up $20.00 for a 2004 M. Prum QBA, Are the wines from Busch that great? (I have not tasted any since this was the first I found from this producer), If so I wonder what the predicate wines go for? Is this the bad dollar or the wave of the future?

Thanks
Michael

It's the ever-sinking dollar.

Heil Bush!

-Paul W.

On the shelves of a couple of wine shops here (Eugene, Oregon) have a Clemens Busch QBA (no vineyard designation) for $27.00. I had a hard time putting up $20.00 for a 2004 M. Prum QBA, Are the wines from Busch that great? (I have not tasted any since this was the first I found from this producer), If so I wonder what the predicate wines go for? Is this the bad dollar or the wave of the future?

Thanks
Michael

Michael, I know this will probably not make me popular with the riesling fans on the board, but at $27 that or any qba can sit on the shelves. I have a lot of reserve spending that much for a kabinett, much less a qba. If the producer has under classified his wine and it really is a spatlese quality, then let him put it on the label, or charge less for it.

Thanks for the support Bob
I agree with you totally, especially when I can get a St Urbans-hof, or Saarsteiner QBA's (which are very good quaffing wines in my opinon) for half the price. This one will stay on the shelf for me also.

Michael

Buy Moenchhof Qba for less than half that price. It is excellent quality and value.

I am a big admirer of Busch´s wines, but the price quoted is horrifying. I paid the equivalent of $12,50 for the Pündericher Marienburg Riesling Kabinett 2005 at the estate, and $24 for the 2006 version in a restaurant in Traben-Trarbach...

Greetings / Fredrik L

[David M. Bueker]

Clemens-Busch is trying to cultivate an image of superiority through high pricing in the US. The same thing is happening with Heymann-Lowenstein and Van Volxem. The prices are out in front of the local recognition, but it's not working as a marketing strategy.

Also - be careful that you're not dealing with a dry Riesling that has been deliberately stripped of pradikat in one of the newer labeling schemes. Is there a vineyard site listed on the label? If so, then you are likely dealing with more than just a QbA. If not then you;re dealing with price gouging by marketing.

[Robin Garr]

Also - be careful that you're not dealing with a dry Riesling that has been deliberately stripped of pradikat in one of the newer labeling schemes. Is there a vineyard site listed on the label? If so, then you are likely dealing with more than just a QbA. If not then you;re dealing with price gouging by marketing.

EXCELLENT advice. Thanks, David.

Clemens-Busch is trying to cultivate an image of superiority through high pricing in the US.

I will contact Rita and Clemens Busch and tell them what we are currently discussing; I´ll get back to you with their version!

Greetings / Fredrik L

I agree with all of the above and wonder, cynic that I am, whether the local merchants are trying to capitalize on a general lack of familiarity with German wines and German wine nomenclature. I've basically been banned from our local BevMo for calling their bluff on a lot of ordinary German wines which they price like '69 TBAs. And this was before the dollar started to tailspin.

Also - be careful that you're not dealing with a dry Riesling that has been deliberately stripped of pradikat in one of the newer labeling schemes. Is there a vineyard site listed on the label? If so, then you are likely dealing with more than just a QbA. If not then you;re dealing with price gouging by marketing.

Michael mentioned no vineyard designation. I checked winesearcher, shows 4 non-pradikat Clemens Busch wines, three are in Oregon. All three are listed as Von Roten Schiefer QbA, with prices from $21-24. Sounds like Eugene shops are priced high.

Based on Lyle Fass's notes on Von Roten Schiefer in Cellartracker that it is a very serious almost dry wine.

I liked the one Clemens Busch wine I had (didn't pay for it).

I would be cautious of saying that I wouldn't pay over XXX for a type of wine. I like the St Urbans Hof QbA mentioned, but it's not in the same class imho as say the Max. Grun. QbAs. Just as price of a Jadot or Drouhin Bourgogne (which can be good values) is mostly immaterial to a Roumier or Lafarge (or Domaine Leroy!!!!!) Bourgogne.

And yes the dollar sucks.

[Robin Garr]

And yes the dollar sucks.

We don't call it the "Dubya Dollarette" for nuthin'!

Heil Bush!

You don't mean Busch?
/A

I just talked to Rita Busch and here comes her explanation, albeit a little abbreviated: "This wine (Riesling vom Roten Schiefer, cost 10,20 Euro [$16] at the estate) was harvested at 98 Oechsle and was thus legally an Auslese. Personally we prefer only to call wines Ausleses if they are made from "specially selected" (ausgelesene) botrytized grapes. In the future we might even stop using the Prädikats for everything but the sweeter categories, so the consumer can know what sweetness to expect. The wines without Prädikate would then either be dry or almost dry (trocken bis feinherb). This is also the aim of the VDP. The best dry wines could then also be labelled "Grosses Gewächs" or "Erste Lage".
This wine stems mostly from a vineyard where much work is needed at present - the former owner sold it to us because he found it no longer profitable - and it would be impossible for us to sell a wine from such a vineyard for less than 10 Euros."

That was how the Buschs looked at it!

Greetings / Fredrik L

[David M. Bueker]

So, as I suspected, while it's labeled as a QbA, it's no mere QbA. In fact I would buy some of it if I didn't have to ship it across the country (thus incurring another $3-5/bottle in shipping).

Getting a $16 wine from the estate to retail in Oregon at $27 is not all that unreasonable.

Thank you all for the great posts on this subject.
Now that we have narrowed it down a bit more on this wine...questions, questions.
After Mrs Busch's comments about being auslese level, I also notice this wine comes in at 12% Alc. I would assume (that phrase gets me into more trouble) that it is bone dry. Would the wine still have the richness of an auslese with predicate, or does this change the wine profile somewhat? Any tasting notes?

Thanks again
Michael

[David M. Bueker]

Auslese ripeness and 12% alcohol. Might not be totally dry. But then again it might be.

It will have the richness and body, but in a totally different way from a traditional auslese since the body will come more from alcohol than sugar. Honestly if I were you I would buy one & try it. It's a kind of wine that is on the vanguard of German wine making these days.

Would the wine still have the richness of an auslese with predicate, or does this change the wine profile somewhat?

Michael,

While I haven't tasted this particular wine, I've had my fair share of Trockene Auslesen (They are pretty available in Germany, but increasing hard to find here -at least in the QmP labeling scheme.) But, If you've drank much dry GG, EG, EL wine from Germany, Riesling Smaragd from Austria, or even dry Riesling from Alsace (although that particular style isn't as similar these days), then you have too. In a viscous and textural sense, they are as rich, only without the noticeable sweetness (the sweetness of the alcohol adds another dimension though.) Poor winemaking can really be exposed at this stage of ripeness and dryness –some wines are lumbering and clumsy. But QmP Auslese Trocken can be a fascinating category of wine and another great substitute for Chardonnay.

-Bill

I have found out a little more information on this particular wine. I found out the wholesale price of this wine in my area. I guess the retail market is getting their share. I am not sure how to post something like this without hanging someone out to dry.

[Robin Garr]

I am not sure how to post something like this without hanging someone out to dry.

I'm not sure this is a satisfactory answer, Michael, but generally speaking, it's entirely appropriate to post pricing and marketing information that affects the consumer, and frankly, if it makes a retailer or distributor look mendacious, that's just part of the deal. Certainly there's no forum rule against it.

I have found out a little more information on this particular wine. I found out the wholesale price of this wine in my area. I guess the retail market is getting their share. I am not sure how to post something like this without hanging someone out to dry.

With normal industry mark-ups, the wholesale price would be in the neighborhood of $18. Is it a lot different in this case?

Mark,
This particular wine is $14(USD) wholesale in my area. Almost a 100% markup! Don't even get me started on restaurant markups. I have a few QBA's that I paid $11 after case discount and the same wine was on a wine list for $26!

Michael

I have a few QBA's that I paid $11 after case discount and the same wine was on a wine list for $26!

"Unfortunately", I think that's normal. 200-300%. When it goes above 300% then it starts getting tricky.

Of course that is why I usually prefer to open bottles at home.