Nossiter - le goût et le pouvoir

Has anyone read le goût et le pouvoir by Jonathan Nossiter?

I just finished it, and found it quite enjoyable. Some of the predictable philosophical and political rants were boring.

But, I enjoyed the tasting sessions and visits with various wine and restaurant industry folks. Very revealing portraits, much like the film.

I also thought his commentary on the difficulty of finding a way to talk about wine was interesting and relevant for us wine board people.

But, I was a bit perplexed at his Full Frontal Assault on Lapierre. He seems to find Lapierre the epitome of Marketing and Style over Substance, which was interesting because I still find the wines pretty tasty (although I don’t have the historical experience to compare). Admittedly, I can see that Lapierre is trendy and is almost obligatory on so many hipster Paris lists. But, so is Puzelat, but Nossiter doesn’t mention one word about that.

Any other thoughts?

[Robin Garr]

Has anyone read le goût et le pouvoir by Jonathan Nossiter?

I just finished it, and found it quite enjoyable. Some of the predictable philosophical and political rants were boring.

I'm embarrassed to say that I know not of it, Rahsaan.

A couple of stupid but necessary questions:

1. Is it available only in French, or has an English translation been published?

2. Is it Mondovino Redux, or something completely different?

I've only seen it in French and confess I bogged down after the first chapter or two. I wouldn't say Mondovino redux -- at least that early material doesn't rehash the film, but I found it a tiresomely clever, that is overwrought, philosophical justification for the film. He's just not that good a philosopher. I say this as someone broadly sympathetic to his outlook but haven't finished the book yet.

I don't know if an English translation exists, it was only published in French in 2007.

As Cliff said, it is kind of a philosophical justification for the film. But, while I found his philosophy and his politics to be tiring, I did enjoy the detailed visits with wine makers and restaurant industry people, and I thought he did a good job of conveying the scene, much as he did in the film. However, this was more personal, with more explicit commentary, and while not a masterpiece it was worthwhile airplane reading for me.

[Robin Garr]

I don't know if an English translation exists, it was only published in French in 2007.

Thanks, Rahsaan. I'd sort of like to give it a try, even with your lukewarm conclusions, but doubt my just-functional tourist French is up to the task.

.... I did enjoy the detailed visits with wine makers and restaurant industry people, and I thought he did a good job of conveying the scene, much as he did in the film. However, this was more personal, with more explicit commentary, and while not a masterpiece it was worthwhile airplane reading for me.

Sounds fair enough. I'll give him another shot. We've got our spring break coming up.

Best,
Cliff

[Robin Garr]

I've only seen it in French

Mind if I ask where/how you got it, Cliff? Picked up in Europe, ordered from Amazon.fr or other? If the price is right, I might grab a copy and try to plow through it as a brush-up-my-French experience.

I've only seen it in French

Mind if I ask where/how you got it, Cliff? Picked up in Europe, ordered from Amazon.fr or other? If the price is right, I might grab a copy and try to plow through it as a brush-up-my-French experience.

I ordered it along with some other books from Amazon or Chapitre. I forget. It's around 20 Euros new, or you can get a used copy for about ten; though shipping is murder if you just want the one book. Do you have access to interlibrary loan? In taking a quick look at my copy, I think I gave up just before the stories begin -- and I tired of the philosophy lesson pretty quickly.

[Robin Garr]

Do you have access to interlibrary loan?

Excellent idea! Louisville Free Public Library holders get it free. Thanks for the tip to an under-used resource. (Under-used by me, anyway ... )

Any time! I'd rather save those dollars for wine...

I don't know if an English translation exists, it was only published in French in 2007.

According to a Decanter report in November last year there is a plan to publish an English version in America later this year.

I wonder about the delay though because I thought Nossiter was an American although raised primarily in Europe. Surely an English version would have been pretty much available simultaneously from him with minimal effort even if he created the original in French.

Perhaps a French publisher found the project more appealing?

I don't know if an English translation exists, it was only published in French in 2007.

According to a Decanter report in November last year there is a plan to publish an English version in America later this year.

I wonder about the delay though because I thought Nossiter was an American although raised primarily in Europe. Surely an English version would have been pretty much available simultaneously from him with minimal effort even if he created the original in French.

Perhaps a French publisher found the project more appealing?

You have no idea what a laborious process translation is, even if you are at home in both languages. He wrote sixteen of the twenty-one chapters directly in French. I gather the book grew out of conversations with his French publisher, Grasset.

You have no idea what a laborious process translation is, even if you are at home in both languages.

Very true. I have some experience here. Often it's not enough to translate the words themselves so as to form cogent sentences in the other language - one must at times translate across mentalities, and there are some things that are just culture-specific and have no equivalents outside their areas of origin.

You have no idea what a laborious process translation is, even if you are at home in both languages.

Very true. I have some experience here. Often it's not enough to translate the words themselves so as to form cogent sentences in the other language - one must at times translate across mentalities, and there are some things that are just culture-specific and have no equivalents outside their areas of origin.

Tu me dire que tout le monde n'est pas bilingue francais/anglais?

I'm an English Quebecer born and raised here, and as a consequence I'm bilingual. I also work for 2 large cultural newspapers (one in English and the other French) and am consisntently going back and forth in both languages. GREAT for wine label reading.

If that's not enough, my son's Mother is a bilingual French Quebecois and my girlfriend (after a split, of course ) is as well though she really doesn't speak much English.

All that to say that the quoted statement is very true, and it's challenging to find the correct words to fall into the correct context.

You have no idea what a laborious process translation is, even if you are at home in both languages. He wrote sixteen of the twenty-one chapters directly in French. I gather the book grew out of conversations with his French publisher, Grasset.

I am sure I don't but can I take it from your comment that 5 of the 21 were written in English first so perhaps roughly a quarter of the task was available as a draft.

My other feeling was that, difficult as translation appears to be [and everyone else has agreed that it is], I felt that the difference here was that a single mind was at work which I would have thought made things rather different from translation of a another person's work. I assume he knew what he meant at each point even if he had to consider how to express it in the other language.

In any event, I look forward to the eventual translation. I read French much better than I speak it but that really isn't saying much.

Mondovino made a big enough splash in the English-speaking world that it makes sense that a publisher would be interested. I would wager a considerable amount that someone else does the translation, if it appears, not because Nossiter couldn't do it -- he obviously could -- but because it would take him a lot of time and effort, even if a quarter of that work is already done. As the others explain, simply knowing what he meant in one language does not make it an easy task to render it in another.

[Robin Garr]

All that to say that the quoted statement is very true, and it's challenging to find the correct words to fall into the correct context.

And then imagine doing it with poetry ... or the great literary classics! It really puts into perspective the remarkable work done by people like John Ciardi (and more recently, Robert Pinsky) in coming up with lovely, lyrical translations of a work like Dante's Inferno. And as good as they are, one wonders how much an English reader loses from Dante's original intent.

Mondovino made a big enough splash in the English-speaking world that it makes sense that a publisher would be interested. I would wager a considerable amount that someone else does the translation, if it appears, not because Nossiter couldn't do it -- he obviously could -- but because it would take him a lot of time and effort, even if a quarter of that work is already done. As the others explain, simply knowing what he meant in one language does not make it an easy task to render it in another.

I am sure you are right - but surely easier for him than someone else since he wrote the original. I suppose if someone else does it Nossiter might well find it easier [less time consuming] to correct misconceptions in the English version than to do the remaining 3/4 himself since he will presumably proof-read it.

I will be interested in the outcome - and the process - since I assume the translator will get a credit? Then again maybe not.

I am sure you are right - but surely easier for him than someone else since he wrote the original. I suppose if someone else does it Nossiter might well find it easier [less time consuming] to correct misconceptions in the English version than to do the remaining 3/4 himself since he will presumably proof-read it.I will be interested in the outcome - and the process - since I assume the translator will get a credit? Then again maybe not.

I'm with Nigel. Frankly, I can't say it would impress me with an author if they hired someone to translate their work into their native language. I mean, this is about his philosophy and politics, but he can't be bothered to translate it himself?

I am sure you are right - but surely easier for him than someone else since he wrote the original. I suppose if someone else does it Nossiter might well find it easier [less time consuming] to correct misconceptions in the English version than to do the remaining 3/4 himself since he will presumably proof-read it.I will be interested in the outcome - and the process - since I assume the translator will get a credit? Then again maybe not.

I'm with Nigel. Frankly, I can't say it would impress me with an author if they hired someone to translate their work into their native language. I mean, this is about his philosophy and politics, but he can't be bothered to translate it himself?

You're talking about a few months of full-time work to translate it himself (as opposed to a week to go over the proofreading). Depending upon his other commitments, that may be more than he has. Having translated some of my own work from French back to English, I can assure you that, yes, it was easier for me than it would have been for anyone else, but that does not make it quick or easy.

I'm sure it would take a lot of work. I am just one of those people who think if you expect me to read about your politics and philosophy, you should be willing to expend a little elbow grease to ensure it is the purest version of your views possible. . I just find amusing the idea of his penning diatribes against corporate winemaking, lauding the true grower/winemaker, but contracting out the translation of his work into his native language. That's just quirky me.

I'm sure it would take a lot of work. I am just one of those people who think if you expect me to read about your politics and philosophy, you should be willing to expend a little elbow grease to ensure it is the purest version of your views possible. . I just find amusing the idea of his penning diatribes against corporate winemaking, lauding the true grower/winemaker, but contracting out the translation of his work into his native language. That's just quirky me.

I agree, his politics are silly. For all those who can't read French and who are interested in the stories, I suspect there will be a market that will pay a translator handsomely for his or her labor.