The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.
User avatar
User

Otto

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

4071

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

WTN: Chablis, Kamptal, Salento, Rioja

by Otto » Sun May 18, 2008 6:20 pm

Domaine Christian Moreau Père et Fils Chablis Grand Cru Valmur 2004

With some arctic char. Light gold. This smells of lemon curd and minerals, but it also has the slightest touch of vanilllin, but not in an offensively oaky way (producer's web site says 55% stainless steel; 45% mostly 1-3yo oak, a small percentage new). Steely, citrussy, mineral palate with a fair amount of weight and fruit. Long, steely aftertaste. Very young and assuming POX doesn't strike, I would love to try this again in a decade.

With a chunk of beef covered in herbs:
Schloss Gobelsburg St. Laurent Haidegrund 2004

I feel sad saying this since I have liked everything from Gobelsburg that has come my way before, but I actively disliked this bottle. This smelled strongly of the powder one makes hot chocolate of, i.e. toasted oak. This scent clashed with the high toned, sweet dark fruit. Nice acidity on the palate, an attractively fleshy yet elegant fruit with bright acidity and soft but noticable tannins - but sadly the oak quickly kicks in and smothers all that attractiveness. What a shame. But gladly we have a few nice whites from Gobelsburg available. My guests enjoyed it more than I did, but I was thirsty and knew they would be also, so a couple more reds were opened:

Cooperativa Agricola Santa Barbara Barbaglio Salento IGT 2002

13% abv; 12,86€. This vintage is once again a very lovable wine - it seems this is every year one of the best cheaper wines available here. A little bit volatile, dark and bitter with some red berry/cherry high notes. Quite full body, tangy, strong structure but sunny and sweet fruit to counter the tannins. It is quite wild and rustic - a charming wine full of personality.

Bodegas Muga Rioja Reserva 2004

This has strong oak just now, but also bright, lifted, berried scents. Quite full bodied, not as elegant as I remember some earlier vintages to have been, but with pleasant tanginess to it. It is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde wine in this primal stage: some sniffs show an utterly oak dominated wine; others show a more classical Rioja profile of brightness and vibrant red fruit. Possibly very nice if the bright side prevails.
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
no avatar
User

Bill Hooper

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2089

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:46 am

Location

McMinnville, OR

Re: WTN: Chablis, Kamptal, Salento, Rioja

by Bill Hooper » Sun May 18, 2008 7:17 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:Schloss Gobelsburg St. Laurent Haidegrund 2004

I feel sad saying this since I have liked everything from Gobelsburg that has come my way before, but I actively disliked this bottle. This smelled strongly of the powder one makes hot chocolate of, i.e. toasted oak. This scent clashed with the high toned, sweet dark fruit. Nice acidity on the palate, an attractively fleshy yet elegant fruit with bright acidity and soft but noticable tannins - but sadly the oak quickly kicks in and smothers all that attractiveness. What a shame. But gladly we have a few nice whites from Gobelsburg available. My guests enjoyed it more than I did, but I was thirsty and knew they would be also, so a couple more reds were opened:



Otto,
I haven't tasted Gobelsburgs Sankt Laurent, but I think I know what you mean. There are many producers in Austria who I think kind of miss the point of this grape and try to dress it up as something it's not. Done well, SL can possess such beautiful perfume, subtleties of flavor and detail that in IMO, it should be treated like Pinot Noir (It does indeed remind me of a more sinister version of Pinot Noir.) Done poorly (and there seem to be lots of ways to screw it up) and slutting it up with too much oak turns her into a witch. Thankfully, the best producers in Burgenland are knocking out wonderful versions -some of the best Sankt Laurent on the planet! I guess I too am a bit surprised by Gobelsburgs handling of this wine. It seems out of character for them to make anything less than great!

-Bill
Wein schenkt Freude
ITB paetrawine.com
User avatar
User

Otto

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

4071

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: Chablis, Kamptal, Salento, Rioja

by Otto » Mon May 19, 2008 4:35 pm

Bill Hooper wrote:I haven't tasted Gobelsburgs Sankt Laurent, but I think I know what you mean. There are many producers in Austria who I think kind of miss the point of this grape and try to dress it up as something it's not. Done well, SL can possess such beautiful perfume, subtleties of flavor and detail that in IMO, it should be treated like Pinot Noir (It does indeed remind me of a more sinister version of Pinot Noir.) Done poorly (and there seem to be lots of ways to screw it up) and slutting it up with too much oak turns her into a witch. Thankfully, the best producers in Burgenland are knocking out wonderful versions -some of the best Sankt Laurent on the planet! I guess I too am a bit surprised by Gobelsburgs handling of this wine. It seems out of character for them to make anything less than great!


Bill, thanks for your comments. We have seen quite a few Zweigelts here but for some this is just one of maybe four or five St Laurents I've had, so I'm still trying to understand what the grape is like. So who makes good and "honest" St Laurent? I liked Heinrich's '06 and Umathum's Frauenkirchner Vom Stein '01 - but who else? (And how do you like Heinrich and Umathum?)

-O
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
User avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

7978

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: WTN: Chablis, Kamptal, Salento, Rioja

by Dale Williams » Mon May 19, 2008 4:39 pm

thanks for notes. I like the Moreau lineup.
I have some '01 Muga I'm hoping the oak will integrate, not especially confident
User avatar
User

Otto

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

4071

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: Chablis, Kamptal, Salento, Rioja

by Otto » Mon May 19, 2008 5:01 pm

Dale Williams wrote:thanks for notes. I like the Moreau lineup.
I have some '01 Muga I'm hoping the oak will integrate, not especially confident


This was my first taste of Christian Moreau - we have previously only had J. Moreau available here.

I posted a few years back on the '01 Muga and voiced similar reservations but was firmly put in place and told I was wrong. I didn't buy any of that. I will be vicariously interested to see how it has developed, though.

-O
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
no avatar
User

R Cabrera

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

662

Joined

Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:14 pm

Location

NYC

Re: WTN: Chablis, Kamptal, Salento, Rioja

by R Cabrera » Mon May 19, 2008 8:34 pm

I BYOB'd a '94 Muga about 3 months ago in a local Spanish restaurant. Everybody in the party were more than pleased with the wine and, to say the least, oak was never an issue.

Ramon
Ramon Cabrera
no avatar
User

Bill Hooper

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2089

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:46 am

Location

McMinnville, OR

Re: WTN: Chablis, Kamptal, Salento, Rioja

by Bill Hooper » Wed May 21, 2008 9:34 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:who makes good and "honest" St Laurent? I liked Heinrich's '06 and Umathum's Frauenkirchner Vom Stein '01 - but who else? (And how do you like Heinrich and Umathum?)

-O


Otto,

I love almost everything produced at Umathum, including their (sometimes) 3 Sankt Laurents. Especially as of late, they are one of Europes best and most consistent red wine producers...IMO :) . I have been a big fan of Heinrichs Blaufrankisch and Zweigelt, but haven't tasted the SL. Try Pockl, Brundlmayer, Sattler, Achs, and Lehrner. I just bought a bottle of Judi Becks SL and will post soon. You know what? I'm starting a freakin' Open Mic when I get back from Memorial Day weekend!

Till then,
-Bill
Wein schenkt Freude
ITB paetrawine.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 4 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign