Your wine contributions to events - how important to you?

[David M. Bueker]

I was reading a thread "elsewhere" and one particular poster's comment stuck with me. He was quite pleased that someone had posted positive notes on the wines he personnally brought to an offline. That one post got me to thinking about how many times people (including me) have brought corked or otherwise damaged wines to offlines with no prior knowlege of the condition, and the bad feelings that result.

Don't get me wrong, I have never seen/heard/otherwise experienced a negative attitude towards anyone who brought a wine to an event that turned out to be flawed. But the fact remains that people who are unfortunate in this way tend to apologize profusely (as if they grew/handled the cork or shipped the wine) and sometimes even take short pours of the remaining wines.

Then there's the unofficial competition for the mythical wine of the night. what's the strategy; go for distinctive to get noticed, or go for "best of breed" and try to slip in with the top white, red or dessert wine.

It got me to wondering how much of people's self-image is wrapped up in other folks perceptions of the wines they bring to events. I know I used to be very self concious (still am to a lesser degree) about how wines were received.

Thoughts?

For me it depends on the type of wine contribution.

If I bring a wine to an offline that everyone in the crowd knows and likes, but it is not showing well for whatever reason, then I have no reason to feel bad.

But, if I'm bringing something new to the table, in a way in which my personal taste is on the line, then I admit to being self-conscious about how much other people like the wine.

Moreover, what is even crazier is when I open wine for my wife or other non-critical people in my family and I still feel as if my tastes were on the line, even though they are evaluating it solely based on whether it pleases their (sometimes narrow) tastes and not whether or not it is analytically a 'good' wine. Case in point, I keep serving Muscadet, riesling, and gruner to my uncle and still cringe when he reaches for the Yellow Tail. I guess I just need to grow up

For me, it's much more a matter of what the event is and who is attending.

Really, let's be honest, often in a general wine geek setting one is, well maybe not judged exactly based on what one contributes, but it is certainly noted. And even though we're all quick to say "whoa, too bad, not your fault" there is still a lingering disappointment somehow on the part of many gathered. If you asked people later on who had brought the corked wine, they'd know, where they might not remember who had brought a particular stellar bottle.

So if it's a wine geek kind of thing and people are there whose palates and tastes I respect, I am much more concerned that whatever I bring is acceptable. If it's just friends, I still want it to be good, but it's not at the same anxiety level. If it's my family, most of whom do not know wine, I don't worry at all, I just bring what I want to drink that day.

David,
I must admit that at one point in my life my wines/perceptions of my palate/etc. held some importance. That is no longer the case. I didn't make the stinkin' wine, I just bought it. If you don't like it, don't drink it!!
Then again, most of the folks I drink wine with on a regular basis are jerks by any reasonable standard...if they aren't insulting you or your wine they probably don't like you very much. That's what I like about them.
William

I try to bring something interesting, and generally try at least to be in the financial ballpark of others contributions. Once I've done that, I hope my wine shows well. However, I certainly don't think I let down the side if my wine is corked! Blame the cork, not me. I've had bottles that didn't show well, but that's part of the game. I certainly have never seen anyone get snubbed for a corked or substandard bottle*.

Whether my wine was WOTN or least favorite, I didn't make it. But as I TRY to bring wines that please, obviously I'd prefer former.
Dale

*The one exception is one person who developed a reputation for bringing cooked bottles to offlines (as well as collecting any corked ones for return to the store). It began to seem like he was hunting for the cheapest entry possible to offlines. One argument for networking rather than open offlines on forums.

Hmmm, now that I think of it, I've met Robin and Mary three times. Offhand, out of a hundred plus bottles I've carried to offlines in last few years, I can think of 4 corked ones (a couple others got caught in preliminary double-decanting and replaced). Yet 2 out of 3 times with Robin one of my wines has been corked. I refuse to feel guilty, and instead will get mad at Robin, as obviously Garr=TCA.

While I think that the trend toward multiple bottles per person is an unfortunate trend in off-lines, I still like to bring extra bottles as backup. I try to open the reds before hitting the road to check for taint but that isn't always possible. So I usually have a back up for every bottle I bring and a bottle or two of something else in case my selection just isn't showing well. Not to justify my palate, but to make sure that I'm carrying my fair share.

I do tend to keep quiet about the extra bottles as some seem to feel that every bottle brought to an off-line has to be opened.

[Robin Garr]

instead will get mad at Robin, as obviously Garr=TCA.

I should never have tucked that Cork-O-Lator in my pocket before the offlines!

The disappointment of opening a flawed wine in mixed company is acknowledged but there's little one can do about it. Or is there? The back-up wine is a good idea. Also opening/decanting the wine (if possible, of course, and using the "Audouze" method if the wine is particularly old and frail) before leaving for the event is the best bet from my point of view.

And the question on how much self-image is wrapped in bringing wine is a matter of horses for courses, IMHO. I don't really mind if a wine newbie or someone of limted means can't match the wine of others with far more experience/afflunce. I was once in the same position and felt incredibly nervous or overawed by some of the company I kept (and some of their wine's for that matter) when I first started out attending wine dinners, two and a half decades ago. Other people's expectations and perceptions may be entirely different to mine but as long as the group has a mantra of good fellowship, I've never had a problem with anything, anyone brings to such events, as long as the person has made an effort of some sort to meet the requirements of what was asked of them (if themes and slots are involved). But I do believe one should always call a wine for what it is. I have been castigated by many in the past for making derogatory comments about poor/faulty wines, because it was taken "personally" by the person who brought the wine. Funny how I have never received the same criticism for making the same comments on a wine I brought!

Despite the very recent addiction to this hobby, I have become "known" as the wine guy among my less obsessed friends and coworkers. So...ego/perception of palate, I must admit, does come into play I try to be modest, but I can't deny the ego boost. (Especially since I read the tasting notes here with their amazing detail and depth of palate knowledge).

I never feel any embarassment, though, about "corked" or otherwise spoiled wine. That's the breaks, and it's not my "fault" anyway. The main problem I have is bringing wines (or drinking wines brought by others) bought a few years ago that I now find to be vile-but are still liked by my friends (vanilla-caramel machiatto oak bombs, mostly). Happily, some of my friends appear to be following/parallelling my palate now, so that doesn't happen as often anymore

[James Roscoe]

Brian could have written my response. My friends think I'm knowledgeable. I try to tell them I'm a neophyte, but that just looks like false humility. I always like it when there is another wine geek in the room.

Somehow, I mis-understood the nature of this thread when I read the title. My initial response was that I contribute some of my home made wines to a veterans meeting every month, which are raffled off, raising money to send CARE packages to troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. 2-3 bottles of wine usually generates about $50. However, now that I understand the post, sometimes I've brought wines for curiosity sake that were a bit out of place, but interesting, in addition to something that fits in with the event. For instance, I brought a wine made by a friend from local wild grapes growing on an island in the Niagara River to MOCOOL a few years ago, in addition to a 1990 Cordon Rouge. Then at a lovely dinner at Bucko's last September, I brought a locally made Noiret, which is a new hybrid developed at Cornell, and on it's own is a decent red wine, but I shouldn't have opened it in the presence of some superb CdPs.

This is a really interesting question. First off, I find that nobody really blames anybody for corked bottles. Only once have I felt personally bad about bringing a corked bottle, and that was when the wine was an important part of a vertical we had put together. Still, what can I do? I just had the one bottle, so a back-up in that instance isn't really an option or appropriate. And I can think of people in my own groups who have had streaks of 3 or 4 consecutive tastings with corked bottles--it just happens sometimes (too often, but that is another story!). We all live with it. Yet, there have been times when I say to myself, "what was he/she thinking?" if say somebody brings something like a '96 white Burg with no back-up and no other bottles. That is just playing it too risky and not thinking through the potential consequences of your choices.

It is also important to know one's audience. If I am drinking with Group A that I know derides certain big styles of California or Australia, I am not going to show up with a bottle like that (even if that is what I like). I want to "fit in"--and I want to be invited back!

There are times when I do strive to bring what I think is going to be the wine of the night, not because I want to "win" but because of the company or because maybe it has been a while since I brought wine of the night and I want to make sure I am perceived to still be "carrying my weight". I don't sweat it too much, but I have to say I put more thought than perhaps I need to into this sort of thing. I guess I have to admit that it does matter a little bit and that I do seek at least tentative approval of the group, if not necessarily accolades. In fact, I would go so far as to say some of my wine buying behaviors are now based more on having certain kinds of wines for off-lines than wines for personal consumption. For example, I know person X said they really like producer Y--so I buy some to bring to an offline I know person X is coming to. I just think that is part of being a good friend and a good drinking buddy.

Lastly, if I hate a wine, I am not going to hold back on saying so, just because of fear of hurting somebody's feelings. I think David himself had a wine at one of our dinners that I hated. I laughingly apologized for my reaction and he totally understood even though he himself liked it. Similarly, I am not shy about raving about a wine I brought. I know lots of people won't vote for a wine they brought as wine of the night (on principle, I guess)--I see no problem with this.

-Michael

I really don't get too depressed other than that it is a wine that I brought and would most likely have enjoyed and would have like to have had others see the wine as I saw it too. Otherwise, we all play the same percentages with cork, heat damage, etc that afflict any bottle.

None of us willingly bring bad stuff so I always give everyone the same respect that they had observed this and hope that in return, when I bring a bad bottle, everyone understands just as well.

A little off-topic, but do people actually swallow the wines at these mega-tastings, or do they spit?

Some of these things I read about - gee whiz, you'd get alcohol poisoning and end up in the emergency room if you swallowed a glass of each wine.

[Actually, I've heard that at some of the more lavish Bipin Desai tastings, people do literally go running outdoors to vomit in the shrubbery, and then come back inside for more.]

I get the impression that at a lot of these tastings, tens of thousands of dollars' worth of wine must get poured out in the spittoons.

Also - what's with scheduling these mega-tastings for weeknights?

How do these people drink several bottles of wine and show up for work the next day?

[David M. Bueker]

A little off-topic, but do people actually swallow the wines at these mega-tastings, or do they spit?

Some of these things I read about - gee whiz, you'd get alcohol poisoning and end up in the emergency room if you swallowed a glass of each wine.
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Also - what's with scheduling these mega-tastings for weeknights?

How do these people drink several bottles of wine and show up for work the next day?

Well at the mega-events that are trade tastings I would say I spit 98% of the wines. At the mega-offlines I take very short pours (e.g. 1 oz or so) and spit quite a lot.

As for the weeknights, well it's tough to get together so we do it when we can. As for getting up & going to work - I just do it. If I couldn't that might indicate a bit of a problem.

I used to feel bad when I brought a bad or corked wine, but that was back in antideluvian times.

I have long since realized that I just bought , cellared and brought the wine, I didn't make the bloody stuff, and if it is corked, so be it - not my fault and no refection on me. I have pretty much stopped bringing back up bottles (we usually have events of a size that one bottle won't be missed if it turns out to be poor) although I do bring a back up if I have any reason to think a particular wine might be over the hill, or otherwise not on form.

Sometimes I purposely bring dubious bottles either of great age (usually turned up in the cellar while hunting for something else) or that are probably past prime just so we can see what they are doing, with no qualms about tossing them if they are duds - I always bring a back up in that case. We've had some delightful surprises - old chards that have no right to be still kicking that are delighful, for instance.

A marked difference in approach from one lady who shall remain unnamed who opens 5 bottles trying to decide what to bring and then brings two back ups - just in case....

When I was still in NYC I was lucky enough to attend quite a few offlines with some really great folks. I can only think of one tool that I wouldn't want to ever share a bottle with ever again (someone who claims a great cellar, shows up with a bottle of crap, then pours himself a taste of every bottle on the table then runs out the door all within twenty minutes). The other 99.9% I felt completely comfortable with giving honest impressions of the wines. You may have spent $200 for that bottle and diligently cared for it, but if it smells like swill and drinks like swill it's swill. Lord knows I've brought more than a few corked white burgs, of course I've learned to bring backups for those. But I've also brought Coche that others raved over that I thought was undrinkable so what can you do? Someone else may be more impressed with a sesame seed oil infused Coche than a nice Muscadet but not me. I never made any of the wines I ever brought to an offline and won't be offended if you hate it but not being ITB I like to share the opportunity to taste around wines that I would never have the opportunity to try before buying on my own, and the best conversations I've ever had at offlines were never about wine anyway.

Nathan:
Occasionally I go to daytime trade tasting, I almost always spit. At offlines I am generally in city, and not driving. I drink my favorites, spit a few I don't like. I'd guess my average consumption then (over several hours) is a bottle or more. With plenty of water, that doesn't bother me the next day, I am always at work by 7:30. Weeknights are more common because (a) easier to get restaurants to agree to a corkage deal, and (b) most of my offlining friends work in city, but many live in varied suburbs.

I can only think of one tool that I wouldn't want to ever share a bottle with ever again (someone who claims a great cellar, shows up with a bottle of crap, then pours himself a taste of every bottle on the table then runs out the door all within twenty minutes).

Listen, Kevin, I had an appointment!
I wonder if your "tool" is same person I referred to. I'd say 98% of offliners I've encountered were people I'd happily share bottles with again.

I've also brought Coche that others raved over that I thought was undrinkable so what can you do? Someone else may be more impressed with a sesame seed oil infused Coche than a nice Muscadet but not me.

Slight thread drift. I like Coche, but find it very distinctive. There's something there that really divides people (I'd guess at a genetic level). I recall a tasting where a blind white went around, and Jacques Levy and Dan Sullivan declared "Coche!" simultaneously. Only difference was that Dan liked it and Jacques found it undrinkable.

best conversations I've ever had at offlines were never about wine anyway.

Indeed!

I want the wine I bring to offlines to at least be considered pleasant if not amazing. I was quite unhappy when I brought four bottles of wine to an offline in the Finger Lakes (a weekend get-together, not just one evening) and they were all "cooked" in the cargo hold of the airplane during four hours on the tarmac at La Guardia on a hot June day. But, hardly my fault.

Sometimes at unthemed offlines I deliberately bring an inexpensive or off-the-beaten track wine to show off a bargain or a wine that surprised me and that I think will be something of a revelation to others also, but if a price point is suggested, I stick to that. Actually, I enjoy sharing one of my more expensive bottles if it fits the theme/offline and I know the crowd is likely to appreciate it. Better though on nights with a small number of bottles where it won't be overlooked in the glut of bottles or left half-consumed at the site of the offline. I appreciate that Mark Noah recorks and takes some of the unfinished bottles with him for his colleagues at work to try because then I know they are not wasted. On occasion I recork and take a bottle that I brought if it is something worth toting back home.

The bigger the off-line (number of people) the less I want to bring the best wines I have.
As for the showing of whatever I bring, that is of little concern - I didn't make them. That, of course, may change and heaven knows how I will react if my name is on the label.
Best, Jim

The bigger the off-line (number of people) the less I want to bring the best wines I have.
As for the showing of whatever I bring, that is of little concern - I didn't make them. That, of course, may change and heaven knows how I will react if my name is on the label.
Best, Jim

I will open my best wines only for small groups, good wines for up to 8 - 10 or so, and generally don't bother participating in anything larger.

I think uniqueness is more important than prestige when it comes to off-lines. When we lived in Maine I visited a local winery to get a bottle to bring to an off-line in the Finger Lakes, along will similarly unique selections from my cellar. The owner'winemaker did not have a bottle of what I wanted for sale, but he got one from his personal cellar thinking he might get some noteriety from it. It was corked!

[David M. Bueker]

The bigger the off-line (number of people) the less I want to bring the best wines I have.

Bingo!

The lone exception was Joe Perry's wedding.