TN: Yves Cuilleron St Joseph L'Amarybelle 2005

This is my first Cuilleron. I've been on a St. Joesph buying binge lately looking to bolster the beginnings of my cellar with age worthy but affordable (as in cheaper than Cornas, Cote Rotie, Hermitage) northern Rhone syrah wine. This is a typical old world style syrah. Nothing new world about this wine at all. The color is very black and dense. The nose is spicy and earthy and dark berries. This wine was quite difficult to enjoy without food, which is good for what I'm looking for. We had the wine at a restaurant that has free corkage on Sunday's and it was decanted for just over an hour. The wine showed so much as better as we moved from the breads to the appetizers to the red meat main course. I think the wine while young has wonderful balance in fruit and tannins but it's acidity is wicked right now. It was a wonderful example of a northern Rhone syrah if you like this sort of wine. I'm going to buy more because I think it's a wonderful and relatively affordable syrah and I can't wait to taste it in 5 and 10 years and compare to the other 2005 St Joes and Croze that I have.

Bryan

This is a typical old world style syrah. Nothing new world about this wine at all. The color is very black and dense.

I don't know that St. Joseph is typically black and dense? Although this was 05..

Also, interesting to hear the positive note on Cuilleron. He is often lambasted by some for being too modern and international oaky, but I have liked the lower-end bottling "Les Pierres Sèches" because it probably receives less treatment than other cuvees. That said, I haven't actually purchased any.

I'm going to buy more because I think it's a wonderful and relatively affordable syrah

So how much was this? I don't know where it fits in his pecking order of price/elevage..

This is a typical old world style syrah. Nothing new world about this wine at all. The color is very black and dense.

I don't know that St. Joseph is typically black and dense? Although this was 05..

Also, interesting to hear the positive note on Cuilleron. He is often lambasted by some for being too modern and international oaky, but I have liked the lower-end bottling "Les Pierres Sèches" because it probably receives less treatment than other cuvees. That said, I haven't actually purchased any.

I'm going to buy more because I think it's a wonderful and relatively affordable syrah

So how much was this? I don't know where it fits in his pecking order of price/elevage..

You might be right about St Joe not being typically so dark in color, but I really don't have enough experience to have an opinion on the matter. And I don't know if this is vintage dependent either. The only other 05 St Joe I have tasted was the Villard Reflet and I don't recall it's color. I did read a couple of different tasting notes on the L'Amarybelle from different vintages which stated that it was very dark.

I am surprised to hear that Cuilleron is typically modern style based on this one wine only. It's not an oaked out wine at all.

Here are a couple of more interesting TNs on the wine:
http://www.wineaccess.com/wine/product/ ... lleron-S...
http://www.everywine.co.uk/every-wine/2 ... oseph.html

Price of the wine is around $45.

Bryan

Price of the wine is around $45.

I still can't get used to these new prices.

I don't know this cuvee but even if it is not the oakiest, some interesting St. Joseph comparisons would be with Gonon, or even better with Philippe Faury, for a less polished and more 'traditional' style.

Price of the wine is around $45.

I still can't get used to these new prices.

I don't know this cuvee but even if it is not the oakiest, some interesting St. Joseph comparisons would be with Gonon, or even better with Philippe Faury, for a less polished and more 'traditional' style.

I have some other St. Joes from 04 and 05 including Gonon, Cuilleron - Les Pierres Sèches, Coursodon - Silice, Courbis - Les Royes and the Villard - Reflet. The problem is I don't have enough of them to drink them young so I can't compare for years to come. As for the new prices. They aren't new to me so I don't have the problem more experienced people do. All I know is I can't afford the good Cote Rotie and Hermitage so I try to obtain the best producers cuvee's from St Joe and Croze and hopefully my bottles come close to the performance of the more expensive northern Rhone appellations for half the price. I guess it's one way to work around the problem of the higher prices.

Bryan

I have some other St. Joes from 04 and 05 including Gonon, Cuilleron - Les Pierres Sèches, Coursodon - Silice, Courbis - Les Royes and the Villard - Reflet.

Sounds like a good comparative lineup.

The problem is I don't have enough of them to drink them young so I can't compare for years to come.

Well if you're really just starting out you might consider tasting some of them while young so you get a better idea for which producers and which cuvees you prefer/ want to keep buying in the next few years. Also, while some of those wines may get better and more interesting with age, they are not necessarily wines that scream out for long aging in the way that Hermitage or Cornas might. So, it could also be beneficial to keep checking in and make sure you don't end up with a big stash of something you don't like.

[David M. Bueker]

Not the '05, but I tasted the '01 at the Neal Rosenthal tasting in Massachusetts last week. It was dark, but remarkably un-oaky, and also had some brisk acidity. I commented on the relative lack of oak, and Neal said that Cuilleron had cut back on new barrels, and that L'Amarybelle sees much less oak than any of the other Cuilleron St. Joseph cuvees.

I liked the 2001 very much, especially combining the dark fruit with such lively acidity. The '01 was selling for $36.99.

Not the '05, but I tasted the '01 at the Neal Rosenthal tasting in Massachusetts last week. It was dark, but remarkably un-oaky, and also had some brisk acidity. I commented on the relative lack of oak, and Neal said that Cuilleron had cut back on new barrels, and that L'Amarybelle sees much less oak than any of the other Cuilleron St. Joseph cuvees.

I liked the 2001 very much, especially combining the dark fruit with such lively acidity. The '01 was selling for $36.99.

I'm relieved that someone found similar characteristics in this wine even with the 4 year difference in vintage. I'm a total TN posting newbie and taster in general so I'm reluctant to post notes because of my lack of experience. It's interesting what you noted that Cuilleron has done with the oak in the different cuvees. I'm going to take back the 4 bottles of Les Pierres Sèches I recently bought but not opened and exchange for more of the L'Amarybelle because I would rather not have a lot of oak in a N.Rhone syrah - I'd rather have pure fruit and acidity for how it goes with food.

Do you have any recommendations of other St Joes that I might consider trying/buying? Or other N. Rhone syrah from Croze or maybe a killer, higher end vin de pay assuming there is such a thing.

Bryan

Thanks for the info about Cuilleron's changing style David. These things are always a moving target.

Or other N. Rhone syrah from Croze or maybe a killer, higher end vin de pay assuming there is such a thing.

Bryan

Many of the famous Cote Rotie producers make a VdP des Collines Rhodaniennes which is 100% syrah. One of the more famous ones is Ogier's 'La Rosine' but Jamet and Stephan are two others I have enjoyed. You can also find them from Cuilleron, Gaillard and others. These used to be $15-20 just a few years ago. Who knows what they sell for now. These producers also make Cotes du Rhone wines that are 100% syrah, although sometimes difficult to find outside of France.

Similarly, Clape in Cornas has a range of 'lower' end wines below the Cornas that are 100% syrah and delicious, although again getting frightfuly expensive.

A darling of this board for fresh and affordable Northern Rhone syrah is Eric Texier. He makes a range of wines from the Southern Rhone to Hermitage and Cote Rotie but the CdR Brezeme is roughly $20 in the US and 100% deliciously fresh syrah.

Not a syrah but I had some wines from Santa Duc that gave me a lot of pleasure. It's southern Rhone but his higher cuvées will age for a long time and I think the wines give immense pleasure and are not to expensive (last time I checked that is).

And I'm also relieved when someone gets the same from a wine as I do. But on the other hand, I post Tn with what I get out of a wine. If you or anyone else is taking the effort to post a tn on a forum like this and he gives his personal oppinion on a wine that is good info, keep on posting tn I'm sure I'm not the only one who enjoys reading them.

Thanks for the info about Cuilleron's changing style David. These things are always a moving target.

Or other N. Rhone syrah from Croze or maybe a killer, higher end vin de pay assuming there is such a thing.

Bryan

Many of the famous Cote Rotie producers make a VdP des Collines Rhodaniennes which is 100% syrah. One of the more famous ones is Ogier's 'La Rosine' but Jamet and Stephan are two others I have enjoyed. You can also find them from Cuilleron, Gaillard and others. These used to be $15-20 just a few years ago. Who knows what they sell for now. These producers also make Cotes du Rhone wines that are 100% syrah, although sometimes difficult to find outside of France.

Similarly, Clape in Cornas has a range of 'lower' end wines below the Cornas that are 100% syrah and delicious, although again getting frightfuly expensive.

A darling of this board for fresh and affordable Northern Rhone syrah is Eric Texier. He makes a range of wines from the Southern Rhone to Hermitage and Cote Rotie but the CdR Brezeme is roughly $20 in the US and 100% deliciously fresh syrah.

I've had a couple of VdPs in my time but nothing with the power, concentration of a good Croze or St. Joe. Although maybe a different style or lesser fruit involved I have enjoyed a few of them for sure. But they are hard to come by where I live. I have access to the Clape CdR but it's $43 and I can get some pretty good St. Joe for that money. I noted with interest that the Clape CdR was described as all young vine Cornas and I thought how can something from Cornas being classified as a CdR. I have had a Gaillard VdP once but it didn't appeal to me. I find some of the syrah VdP are too light bodied and lacking fruit for my liking and the Gaillard I had was like that. Villard's VdP 2005 wasn't too bad as well and I have one more bottle of that. I'll have to hunt around for some of the others you mentioned. Texier used to be available here but the imported stopped bringing in.

Bryan

Not a syrah but I had some wines from Santa Duc that gave me a lot of pleasure. It's southern Rhone but his higher cuvées will age for a long time and I think the wines give immense pleasure and are not to expensive (last time I checked that is).

And I'm also relieved when someone gets the same from a wine as I do. But on the other hand, I post Tn with what I get out of a wine. If you or anyone else is taking the effort to post a tn on a forum like this and he gives his personal oppinion on a wine that is good info, keep on posting tn I'm sure I'm not the only one who enjoys reading them.

Unfortunately Santa Duc isn't available here but there is a reasonable selection of Gigondas. I have some Cosme, Saint Damien and Monteris. I am interested in exploring this region more as I find myself wanting to upgrade from CdRs and CdRVs but don't want to pay the fare of high priced CdPs (but there sure are some good reasonably priced CdPs around now - heck for that matter I still think a $10 CdR can be an amazing wine).

I will keep on posting TN's here on occasion since at least theres one person who enjoys them

Bryan

I have access to the Clape CdR but it's $43 and I can get some pretty good St. Joe for that money. I noted with interest that the Clape CdR was described as all young vine Cornas and I thought how can something from Cornas being classified as a CdR.

Anything can be declassified to avoid 'diluting' the main brand. I agree that it's expensive, but it can also be pretty good and better than a lot of St. Joseph. Plus it speaks more of Clape and Cornas. Depends what else is available and what you're in the mood for. Although, I haven't felt the need to buy any in years, FWIW.

some of the syrah VdP are too light bodied and lacking fruit for my liking

Well then you probably wouldn't like Stephan. I think they do carbonic maceration (at least they used to) for the VdPCR. But, if you like juicy fruit forward wines you should definitely check out Ogier and La Rosine.