WTN: Is there such a thing as a great Pouilly-Fuisse?

Tasted this one tonight. Wonderful, but not great. What do people think about the question?

2006 Joseph Drouhin Pouilly-Fuissé - France, Burgundy, Mâconnais, Pouilly-Fuissé (7/11/2008)
Green/straw in color. Honey/citrus nose. Sharp grapefruit on attack, followed by flinty minerals, prickly "bigsting" leading to a steely/vegetable, mouth cleansing finish that adds a bit of gravel and nutmeg. Probably as good as a Pouilly-Fuisse gets (i.e., good but not great)? (88 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker

[David M. Bueker]

I guess it depends on what your definition of great is. Great within its class or great compared to Montrachet? How about compared to Trimbach Riesling Clos Ste. Hune?

Maybe great compared to other "main stream" white Burgundies like Pernand-Vergelesses, St. Aubin, etc. These Pouillys never really connect to me somehow....

As David said, what is great? I'm a big Drouhin fan, one of top 10 producers in my cellar, but that's a huge production negoce wine and I'd be shocked if the best Pouilly-Fuisse was that. I'd look towards specialist producers like Rijckaert, Barruad (sp?), Bret brothers, Guffens-somthing-I-can't-remember.

[David M. Bueker]

Well if you only want to look at the mainstream stuff then I think there must be. Personal style preferences may not make it easy for you (or me for that matter - I'm no fan), but I cannot believe that there would not be some "objectivley great" Pouilly-Fuisse in that context.

Jan,

If you are taking a large négociant's Pouilly-Fuissé as emblematic, I can see why you ask this question. This wine was probably blended from several cuvées presented by brokers to the Drouhins and as such represents a creditable effort, as you point out.

But for greatness, I think you need to look at producers who have a stronger connection to the wine in question--those who grow, vinify and commercialize under their own labels. Some you might want to try (maybe you have and didn't care for them, I don't know) include the single-vineyard (cru) wines from:

Ch. Fuissé
Dom. Robert-Denogent
Dom. Ferret (purchased by Jadot this year)

There are probably others, but those are the ones that come immediately to mind for me.

[Jenise]

As David said, what is great? I'm a big Drouhin fan, one of top 10 producers in my cellar, but that's a huge production negoce wine and I'd be shocked if the best Pouilly-Fuisse was that. I'd look towards specialist producers like Rijckaert, Barruad (sp?), Bret brothers, Guffens-somthing-I-can't-remember.

Would you list Verget among those? We had a stunning 05 last Monday night.

[Robin Garr]

... Guffens-somthing-I-can't-remember.

Would you list Verget among those? We had a stunning 05 last Monday night.

If I'm not mistaken (and I may very well be), Guffens is the maker of Verget.

A couple of years ago, Verget got a bit of a reputation for making modern, "P***erized" wines intended primarily for US export, but that said, I've opened quite a few of them that I liked.

Ch. Fuisse is IMO very good, though most Pouilly Fuisse is about 20% too expensive for what it is. Shame that it's an occasional purchase rather than anything more regular, but the QPR isn't good for my palate.

Ch. Fuisse is IMO very good, though most Pouilly Fuisse is about 20% too expensive for what it is.

In Israel, this is an understatement. Prices for most French wines are outrageous compared to the quality you can buy locally. But for me personally, I am happy to pay for a style change now and then.

Thing with Pouilly-Fuisse for me is that while I enjoy some other "B-level" ACs (such as the ones I mentioned above), P-F never really strikes a chord with me. I will keep in mind some of the producers mentioned here though (and see whether they are available where I live).

If I'm not mistaken (and I may very well be), Guffens is the maker of Verget. A couple of years ago, Verget got a bit of a reputation for making modern, "P***erized" wines intended primarily for US export, but that said, I've opened quite a few of them that I liked.

Yes, I think his personal domaine wines are the Guffens-Heynen (sp?) and the negociant wines go through Verget (along with some older Verget properties in Chablis). I could be wrong about that, but JM Guffens is definitely winemaker at Verget.

Thing with Pouilly-Fuisse for me is that while I enjoy some other "B-level" ACs (such as the ones I mentioned above), P-F never really strikes a chord with me. I will keep in mind some of the producers mentioned here though (and see whether they are available where I live).

Well, things like the Drouhin are classic Maconnais- unoaked, high acidity. If you want something like a St Aubin you would be better off with the more ambitious producers such as those Joe Cz mentioned.

The best Pouilly-Fuisse I've had was a Chateau Fuisse offered at a tasting of Mommesin wines in NYC. The representative of Mommesin also declared it his white wine of the night. But was it great--not in comparison to a superb Montrachet but very enjoyable I felt.

I don't know if you can find them in Israel but the Pouilly Fuisse wines made by the Bret Brothers are very nice, as close to great Chardonnay as you can get without having a Montrachet in the name (or Meursault)

the Bret Brothers are very nice,

Just such an unfortunate name for winemakers.

of course the question is the problem
1. are any great wines made in pouilly fuisse
2. within the category of pouilly fuisse, are there any superior in a way that makes them 'great for a pouilly fuisse'.

as to the latter, it would be hard to imagine that there weren't such a thing. as to the former, my take is that if you try to make a 'great' wine in pouilly fuisse, you will probably fail to even make a good one. but if you try to make a good one, you might accidently make one that was near great.

Maybe it was the food, or the company but I recently had an '04 Dominique Cornin (Chaintre) that was superb.
Even after a decent Haut Montravail (Sauterns style) the Pouilly-Fuisse help finish off the Stilton in fine style, even at room temperature. I was impressed. The '98 Cht. Becasse (Pauillac) went well with the NY strip too.

[David M. Bueker]

my take is that if you try to make a 'great' wine in pouilly fuisse, you will probably fail to even make a good one. but if you try to make a good one, you might accidently make one that was near great.

I have a similar opinion about many areas, but I think some of the resulting wines end up being actually "great."

I think "great" Pouilly Fuisse wd be an unlikely find given the price point niche they are in...As it is, they typically compete against Macons and St Verans which are cheaper and Chablis and bourgogne blanc in roughly the same price range or higher..the economics of making a great PF probably arent there..ie, no matter how great the wine turned out,there is a limit as to what they cd sell it for since there is a fair amount of pretty good Mersault,Puiigny,Chablis etc available..I tend to see PF as overpriced for what it is and buy Macons and St Verans

Yes, I think his personal domaine wines are the Guffens-Heynen (sp?) and the negociant wines go through Verget (along with some older Verget properties in Chablis). I could be wrong about that, but JM Guffens is definitely winemaker at Verget.

Correct. There is a lot of information about Guffens and Verget at this link http://www.verget-sa.fr/domain.php?doma ... anguage=en .

Jean Rijckaert was a founding partner in Verget but their ways parted partly because of differences on style.

ie, no matter how great the wine turned out,there is a limit as to what they cd sell it for..

I don't know, wine prices seem pretty flexible and growth-bound these days..

I have had a few impressive St. Verans from Daniel et Martine Barraud (imported into the US by Skurnik). They are based in Pouilly and make several highly regarded bottlings from the various communes within that designation. Seems like they would be worth searching out.

Seems to me that an Open Mike might be in order here. Do we have to be concerned about vintage problems in the past few years??

Daniel Barraud makes spectacular Pouilly-Fuisse. Also check out Eric Forest (who interned at Verget, but doesn't believe in the 'lees-blender' approach of Jean-Marie Guffens.) Pouilly-Fuisse does posses excellent terroir around the Roche de Solutre and Roche de Vergisson. These are capable of quite firm, mineral wines. There is a lot of new blood in the region (led IMO by Forest) who are raising the bar for everyone else (and quite a few producers mentioned are answering the call.) I guess that there was a time when it was sooo bloody easy to sell Pouilly-Fuisse that quality gave way to quantity (If you were blindly buying Pouilly-Fuisse in the '70's and '80's because it was fun to say, I BLAME YOU! ) Those days are thankfully behind us -PF makes wine to be reckoned with!

Cheers,
Bill

Out here in the prairie, lots of names I am not familiar with. Gilles Noblet is available, worth a try?