WTN: Timing the 95 Le L d'Or

1995 Luneau Papin Muscadet Le L d'Or
I had difficulty timing this one right as it was very funky and cheesy and roasted kasha stalky and not very attractive to my palate on the first night. However, about 18 months ago I had a similar experience but then loved it on day two once things got settled. This time it was again more settled on day two, with lovely mints and minerals and pale citrus and flowers and a haunting perfume in the mouth. But, it was also a touch too dilute and made me think that it had been held too long. Perhaps sometime inbetween it was showing at its peak, but alas I missed it.

[David M. Bueker]

I know it's all the rage to consider Muscadet to be ageable, but 13 years does seem a bit long.

..13 years does seem a bit long.

About 18 months ago when I first had this 95, I also had several bottles of the 93, 90, and 89 and none of them were too dilute for my tastes.

Of course 95 is not the same vintage as 89 or 90, but at the time it seemed significantly richer than the 93 so I thought it might have more potential. But, you live and you learn

I've also experienced a good amount of quirky bottle variation with these Luneau-Papin Le L d'Ors. Not in the sense of dead or damaged wines, but rather different vintages showing richer and sleeker at different times with no apparent rhyme or reason. Sometimes, it was like the vintage labels didn't even correspond to the wine inside!

I enjoyed this a while ago, but am holding my last bottle.
I agree that I've had bottle variation with the '89 & '90 - all good, but seemingly in different stages, from very young to seemingly mature.

I enjoyed this a while ago, but am holding my last bottle.
I agree that I've had bottle variation with the '89 & '90 - all good, but seemingly in different stages, from very young to seemingly mature.

I've had the least variation with the '89 and the most with the '90, '93, '95 and '96, but then again these are the only non-recent release vintages where I have had multiple bottles. I don't know if this is a function of Muscadet in general aging in weird cycles or something to do with the bottling of this particular cuvee.

[David M. Bueker]

Maybe it's that Muscadet is not going to age predictably because it's not generally meant to age.

Maybe it's that Muscadet is not going to age predictably because it's not generally meant to age.

Point well taken.

Perhaps not 'generally' but this cuvee (and other top-of-the-line cuvees, e.g. Briords, Clisson) have been fashioned by their winemakers to have capabilities for development and aging well past their 10th birthday, sometimes much much longer. You might think they are wrong (and certainly many in the wine world do not count on Muscadet to fill up most of their cellar space), but strictly speaking these cuvee were meant to age.

[David M. Bueker]

I don't necessarily think they are "wrong" but question if there can be any expectation of predictability given that this is a relatively new (commercially) style of wine for the region.

...question if there can be any expectation of predictability given that this is a relatively new (commercially) style of wine for the region.

Ok, again point well taken, and I don't have enough first-hand knowledge to debate the issue much further. So, it would be helpful if we had input from some of the Angers Festival Crew who visit every year and taste the Muscadets back to the 60s and 70s. Not sure if any are still posting on this board however..

[David M. Bueker]

I'm not really sure how relevant "ancient" wines tasted in situ are to the discussion. I've had 30 year old QbA in Germany that was glorious, but a bare handful of wines (likely only random bottles) would survive the rigors of transatlantic shipping, distribution & home cellaring to achieve the same results here. Wines that do not leave home until they are opened are a unique case.

I'm not really sure how relevant "ancient" wines tasted in situ are to the discussion. I've had 30 year old QbA in Germany that was glorious, but a bare handful of wines (likely only random bottles) would survive the rigors of transatlantic shipping, distribution & home cellaring to achieve the same results here. Wines that do not leave home until they are opened are a unique case.

I don't think 30 year old QbA is a fair comparison to 30 year old Clos des Briords. 30 year old Domaine Pepière perhaps.

[David M. Bueker]

Depends on which QbA.

Also, my main point in invoking the in situ crowd was that they would have most first-hand info about the winemakers' experiences, intentions, etc. Because I suspect that these wines are meant to age given their position in the hierarchy/pecking order/vinification, but don't have much info from the producers about what they mean by aging, how that has evolved over time, history of the approach, etc.

Depends on which QbA.

Grunhaus is also a unique case

I don't know anyone who has tasted the '88 Briords, '89 or '90 L dOr, etc who has any doubts re top Muscadets ability to age; as to winemakers' intentions the fact that they held on to substantial portions of the wines for many years probably indicates they intended to age.

The fact that Sauvion Muscadet doesn't age is as material to Le L d'Or's ageability as the "Blue Slate" Riesling is to a JJ Prum WS.

[David M. Bueker]

I just don't see it. Maybe every bottle of older Muscadet I have had was already damaged, but I have not had anything older than about 5 years that was worth drinking, and that includes Briords and Le L d'Or.

I have not had anything older than about 5 years that was worth drinking, and that includes Briords and Le L d'Or.

Pesky bottle variation

More seriously, such are the diverse preferences of life. And you're not alone.

I just don't see it. Maybe every bottle of older Muscadet I have had was already damaged, but I have not had anything older than about 5 years that was worth drinking, and that includes Briords and Le L d'Or.

Do you drink older Chablis, David? If your expectations are set by your experiences with older Riesling, you may have to recalibrate a bit. I've shared a bottle of '90 L D'Or with Rahsaan, and it was very fine indeed. There's no question that top Muscadet can age in a way not unlike Chablis, but that may not be to your liking.

Mark Lipton

[David M. Bueker]

I like older Chablis (I've had 15-20 year old Raveneau & Dauvissat).

I like older Chablis (I've had 15-20 year old Raveneau & Dauvissat).

OK. In that case, you're just WRONG (Have you been socializing with Kane?)

Mark Lipton

I just don't see it. Maybe every bottle of older Muscadet I have had was already damaged, but I have not had anything older than about 5 years that was worth drinking, and that includes Briords and Le L d'Or.

Really? I think the 2002's will go the distance (for my tastes, 10-12 year wines).

[David M. Bueker]

For what it's worth I am cellaring about a case of upper-echelon Muscadet just to see if I can prove myself wrong.

For what it's worth I am cellaring about a case of upper-echelon Muscadet just to see if I can prove myself wrong.

That's good, David. I don't think anyone else could do it.

Really? I think the 2002's will go the distance (for my tastes, 10-12 year wines).

I agree, and the 2000 too, though I have limited experience with truly old Muscadet.


Charles

I've had consistently terrific experiences with the '95 and '97 L d'Or (though none since last year); both seemed to have plenty of life left. I just had the 2000 Briords, which I believe was a middling year, and was lovely over the weekend.