Ever tried building your own wine notes/cellar database?

Yeah, I probably have a bit too much time on my hands lately but my latest project is attempting to design and catalogue my own little cellar and tasting notes database. It's something I always imagined eventually doing once I acquired a fair number of wines tasted and a fair number of bottles purchased. Both are still very much in the learning and growing stage but I do have enough past notes (and purchased bottles) where I'd like to finally make a home where I can catalog and archive them. In addition, I thought it would be fun (and make sense) to make my own little cellar collection database as well.

I'm actually thinking of just designing a simple (though custom-oriented) database straight off of Microsoft's Access Program (right here from my laptop). I wasn't even initially aware that a nice, custom-minded one could be done without either ordering a true wine software program or building a true one from scratch yourself (assuming one had software developing talent). I don't have any wild ideas in mind or dancing multimedia screens planned or anything. In fact, it will likely be a rather simple layout and organization but I'm still the type who likes (even with simple headings) to set them up in a certain way, order, etc as opposed to another program who's layout and arrangement of fields/headings etc are pre-made and which I have no way to fundamentally tweak. Of course you can arrange/filter your own info on these programs anyway you wish, which is the main thing. Yet you can't fundamentally change/re-name/re-design the fields, headings, categories that you are inputting your info into. So this is what I'm hoping to get a little more personal control of. Just a little...

I definitely understand that I could make life much easier on myself by just using something like cellartracker or any other of the fine software programs out there. There's no reason I can't but, for the reasons stated above, I actually kind of like the idea of creating one myself and tailoring the fields/headings/layout more to my tastes (even if we're just talking about border colors, fonts and other subtleties). Basically any wine software program serves the same purpose but nonetheless, much like the way my cellar itself is unique to me I figured why not make a wine database that is more or less my creation as well!

The only drawbacks to this that I see are:

1) It's a lot more self-made work for me to design and input my own spreadsheets/headings/filters/categories/layout (though again, in my twisted mind that's kinda the idea and romance of the whole thing... )

2) I'm not going to have access or easy cross-reference to all the millions of wine notes of others for a wine I have tasted or am cellaring. I know this is a very popular and handy feature of the better and more advanced wine software programs. I'm kinda undecided as to whether I really care too much about this feature or not. I'm sure its good to have. I enjoy reading through them, like everyone else, but at the same time how many opinions and tasting notes of Bollinger 1996 Grande Annee do I need? On their own I love reading all them, especially about a particular favorite bottle I might have (or have had) but then again I can always just research or look up any available notes on a particular bottle myself - perhaps even finding one on a great board such as this!

3) Much like #2, just building my own simple database isnt going to easily allow the "drink now/drink at this time" charts/recommendations that are handy in the good software programs. Here again, I'm not sure that in my case this is too big a loss. Seeing my cellar is essentially 98% champagnes I have a general idea of when I'd ideally prefer to pop the cork on any particular bottle (generally speaking, always the older, the better - assuming I have the patience to wait... ) . For educational purposes, and to keep a physical record of when I purchase any bottle and thus begin "aging it on its cork", I do want to be able to track such dates and always be able to arrange ones that have been aging the longest etc but aside from these fun and necessary features I dont think I necessarily need graphs or several recommendations telling me to drink my 1996 Dom in 2012 through 2020. I pretty much know with such a wine that I could essentially drink it anywhere from starting tomorrow all the way to say, oh... 2070, depending on whether you have a "fresh" preference or a very mature one (assuming you're cellaring it decently enough to begin with). Although for general wines or those that do have more specific or early "drinking windows" I could see where having the "drink now/drink later" features would be handy to access and monitor but again for my purposes I dont think this particular feature is necessarily necessary (how is that for a tongue twister)

Don't get me wrong, I do find it fun and helpful to be able to retrieve some charts and things. One thing Id like to do, for example, would be to filter all champagnes Ive had that I've given my highest "ratings" to and then filter several other characteristics from that highest list and make graphs from the results. Perhaps it might reveal some curious findings such as all my most well liked champagnes were all mostly Chardonnay based? Or I could even invert this idea and create a chart from my database showing all the predominately chardonnay champagnes Ive had and how many were 4 stars, 3 stars, 2 stars (if I were to use a star system). This kind of stuff I really love and feel would be educational and perhaps revealing about my own tastes, etc. And I could always show or display my tastes/tendencies/preferences based on these charts and facts (the facts being the info I always enter).

I was hoping to get everyone's thoughts on what you all use to manage your notes and cellars? Or if you even bother? Perhaps some just do handwritten or typed notes including bottles you currently have in the cellar (which I actually think is the best and most old fashioned approach). It is essentially what I've done up to this point but you do start to run into a crossroads when you want to archive, preserve and organize all those hand notes! Have you ever tried making your own database or software (even if its a simple one)? Do you just prefer using one of the many pre-developed software programs that exist such as cellartracker? If so, what do you like most about them and what do you like least?

Yours Truly,

Jeff

HI Jeff,

yes I tried all of this, first by spreadsheet, then by MS Access from scratch, then using a Microsoft template that came with Access97 i think, and now I'm using an MS Access database designed by another Australian, Brian Handreck. He's happy for people to use it at no cost.

If its not against forum rules I can post a link,

cheers

Andrew

If its not against forum rules I can post a link

Go for it, bro.

http://redbigot.info/rb_cellar_master.htm

cheers

AB

If its not against forum rules I can post a link

Go for it, bro.

You gotta try that 06 Hexamer Quarzit DLo,

For a long time I used simple text files for my "cellar" and TNs, using structured text - effectively fields separated by semi-colons. The idea with the structured text being that I could later process the text programatically if desired. It worked quite well, and I could simply copy over the text defining the wine from my cellar file to my TN file when I wanted to make a TN. TNs were usually copied over from my PDA and tidied up. For a long time, simple ctrl-F finds in the files were sufficient, but eventually I decided more sophisticated searching was desirable. So I imported my TNs into a MySQL database and wrote a simple C# program to search them. I still enter my TNs in the text format, and then import into the database using perl scripts. You did ask

Now I work as a software engineer, and I am sure this approach is not suitable for everyone. The bits about my approach that I would urge others to consider are:

a) The use of text files. Just putting something into a computer file, as opposed to hand-written notes, makes it immediately searchable. Text file editors are so much faster than Word - I can be editing a note while Word is still thinking about starting up. But do get something better than Notepad, e.g. PFE or ConTEXT - both are free. Also I am a lot less depending on any one software vendor and tools I need to pay for.

b) The educational aspect of entering wine details for yourself. It's a lot more tedious than the cellar tracker approach, but being forced to read and interpret labels is a great way to learn about wines - for those of us with more geeky tendencies at least. When I started doing this I decided I didn't like the headings in any existing wine database.

Hopefully the Aussie database will work for you (as noted, there is a template available from MS, but I didn't care for it).

I used Access for years, designing my db myself. I had fields for ID, vintage, producer, wine name, appelation, region, country, quantity, size, price paid, my notes, consumption range, other/published notes, type (red, white, sweet, fortified, rose, bubbly), grape, priority (I found my range hard to use, added this to rank need to drink from 1-5), bin.

So, I know you said you didn't want to use CT. But I'll just say I'm waaaaaayyyy happier with CT than I ever was with Access. For following reasons:
1) sheer ease of entry, as most wines are already in there. Entering a wine takes seconds, as opposed to minutes in Access. Minutes doesn't sound like much, but if you get a mixed case in, it's easy to put off and then never do. Even with CT, I tend not to enter the wines going on the everyday/drink within a year racks.
2) the increase in ways to easily sort. Before I couldn't do CdBeaune vs CdN (others than by individual appellations), or easily call up all 1998 Right Bank Bordeaux, etc. Champagne is maybe easier, but it is still easy to sort in various ways. And you don't have to write own queries. While you can't change fields, easy to override drink dates (and sort by)
3) With wines I have owned for a long time, it's interesting to see community values and Winebid prices. I don't sell, but still interesting if say trading.
4) CT is very useful if one say buys the same wine at different times. It lets me keep together yet track separately bottles of the same wine acquired at different times/stores, &/or stored in different bins. I'm sure that is possible with Access, but I never figured out a way without either setting up entirely separate record or just throwing up my hands and merging (averaging costs, etc)
5) In general with Access you have to setup cumbersome reports for reading your notes, as tables are inconvenient for long fields.
6) If you ever buy prearrival wines the pending deliveries feature in CT is fantastic (and provides date, you can enter order #, etc)
7) In general I don't neccessarily find notes from just anyone useful. But the "favorite" button lets me identify folks whose notes I trust, so I don't read all the notes on a Donnhoff, but like the ones from Rieslingfan (David B), read Bdx notes from MattR, Loire notes from Frogman (Cliff) etc. The integration features can be nice, I like VFTC (Gilman) on Champagne. Notes are the least of reasons I use CT, but reading notes from those I trust is a good way to gauge whether a wine is drinking well at a particular time.

You just KNEW someone was going to argue for CT.

Everything Dale said.

Why reinvent the wheel?

If you are masochistic, you could start with CT, use the downloadable spreadsheet and then see if you can improve on it.

Everything Dale said.

I've been using a spreadsheet for around 15 years now. Of course it has morphed over the years.
It now has a lot of data in it, including nearly all the bottles I've opened in that time. It's been getting a little big to browse, though the .ods (OOCalc) file is only about 200 KB.
I too, have thought about building a real database, and I actually started a couple of times. It's a big project.
I'd probably go to CellarTracker, except I'm lazy and I doubt I'll live long enough to get around to entering all those old bottles.

John

b) The educational aspect of entering wine details for yourself. It's a lot more tedious than the cellar tracker approach, but being forced to read and interpret labels is a great way to learn about wines - for those of us with more geeky tendencies at least. When I started doing this I decided I didn't like the headings in any existing wine database.

Hi Steve,

That's exactly what I'm finding in regards to manually putting in the notes and also about not finding any existing software that is exactly set up the way I like. I just really like the creative aspect of at least designing the headings/categories/etc myself. It is more work obviously, but I find it more fulfilling.

Jeff

John.. if you already have the data in a spreadsheet, I'm guessing uploading to CT is not that big of a deal. Mine was in Word to begin with, a buddy put it into Excel, and then CT uploaded. There were very few cases where I had to do anything. Pretty easy process. The customer service at CT is amazing.. and this for a service that is pay if you wish.. i.e., free.

I started off with a text based "database" called Filebase (I think), then moved to MS Access when I had some time on my hands and wanted to learn Access. Started with MS Access v2 which did not have the wine catalogue template (again, I think this is correct, it was a long time ago). So I set it up from scratch, defined the tables, formatted the screens and reports, tweaked things here and there and eventually go to what I wanted. It helped that I know about databases and table definition.

Moved it to MS Access 97 when we purchased MS Office 97 and still use this. It still gets tweaked occasionally. It does the job.

Hopefully the Aussie database will work for you (as noted, there is a template available from MS, but I didn't care for it).

I used Access for years, designing my db myself. I had fields for ID, vintage, producer, wine name, appelation, region, country, quantity, size, price paid, my notes, consumption range, other/published notes, type (red, white, sweet, fortified, rose, bubbly), grape, priority (I found my range hard to use, added this to rank need to drink from 1-5), bin.

So, I know you said you didn't want to use CT. But I'll just say I'm waaaaaayyyy happier with CT than I ever was with Access. For following reasons:
1) sheer ease of entry, as most wines are already in there. Entering a wine takes seconds, as opposed to minutes in Access. Minutes doesn't sound like much, but if you get a mixed case in, it's easy to put off and then never do. Even with CT, I tend not to enter the wines going on the everyday/drink within a year racks.
2) the increase in ways to easily sort. Before I couldn't do CdBeaune vs CdN (others than by individual appellations), or easily call up all 1998 Right Bank Bordeaux, etc. Champagne is maybe easier, but it is still easy to sort in various ways. And you don't have to write own queries. While you can't change fields, easy to override drink dates (and sort by)
3) With wines I have owned for a long time, it's interesting to see community values and Winebid prices. I don't sell, but still interesting if say trading.
4) CT is very useful if one say buys the same wine at different times. It lets me keep together yet track separately bottles of the same wine acquired at different times/stores, &/or stored in different bins. I'm sure that is possible with Access, but I never figured out a way without either setting up entirely separate record or just throwing up my hands and merging (averaging costs, etc)
5) In general with Access you have to setup cumbersome reports for reading your notes, as tables are inconvenient for long fields.
6) If you ever buy prearrival wines the pending deliveries feature in CT is fantastic (and provides date, you can enter order #, etc)
7) In general I don't neccessarily find notes from just anyone useful. But the "favorite" button lets me identify folks whose notes I trust, so I don't read all the notes on a Donnhoff, but like the ones from Rieslingfan (David B), read Bdx notes from MattR, Loire notes from Frogman (Cliff) etc. The integration features can be nice, I like VFTC (Gilman) on Champagne. Notes are the least of reasons I use CT, but reading notes from those I trust is a good way to gauge whether a wine is drinking well at a particular time.

You just KNEW someone was going to argue for CT.

Hi Dale,

Thanks for the tips. I do see how several of those would be much easier to use with cellartracker. In fact, the convenience and saving of time is the main feature I always hear about them, which I don't doubt. I've heard good things about them so haven't ruled them out 100% yet but still think I will more than likely give a try at "tweaking" my own. A nice thing about falling in love with primarily just one wine passion (champagne in my case) is that I don't necessarily need the all-out deluxe capabilities that probably makes cellartracker handy if you have a varied and enourmous cellar full of different types, bottles and drinking stages. In other words, most people with several bottles and several types need something like cellartracker just to make sense of all their inventory/drinking times. Since I always have at least a general idea of what I have (and since I dont have an extremely huge number of bottles cellaring at any one time) I don't know that I even need something as "all-encompassing" as cellartracker. I dont doubt it would be easier to just throw my notes in there and save a bunch of time but seeing my cellar is more of a "specialty" (or one sided) one, I'm thinking it would make more sense to just make my own little custom database to follow and organize it. Of course, there isn't a right or a wrong. Perhaps I just have a strange addiction to making more work for myself than I really need to...

Jeff

I started off with a text based "database" called Filebase (I think), then moved to MS Access when I had some time on my hands and wanted to learn Access. Started with MS Access v2 which did not have the wine catalogue template (again, I think this is correct, it was a long time ago). So I set it up from scratch, defined the tables, formatted the screens and reports, tweaked things here and there and eventually go to what I wanted. It helped that I know about databases and table definition.

Moved it to MS Access 97 when we purchased MS Office 97 and still use this. It still gets tweaked occasionally. It does the job.

Hi Neil,

I think this is the route I'm most likely headed myself - using MS Access that is. You're right about it helping to have familiarity with the definitions and how databases actually work. I think in most cases, the sky can be the limit for creating with them if you truly know what all they can do. But my knowledge is, unfortunately, only mildly adequate. Still, I'm hoping I can learn enough to at least get a somewhat simple yet customizable one off the ground. We'll see...

Jeff