How many grape varieties exist?

I've read that as much as 10,000 grape varieties have tendrils spreading this earth (with about half that number in Italy).

Last week, as part of a Wine Librarian Conference held at Cornell University, we got a tour of the University's Agricultural Station grapevine collection vineyard that is operated by the US Department of Agriculture. Their goal is to collect and maintain at least two grapevines of each variety. They also release cuttings to growers around the country.

While there, I got to inspect vines that i have never heard of from the Americas and from Asia.

The plot we visited was only for cold-hardy varieties. The list of different grapevines in that area totaled just over 2,500.

I have no idea of the length of the list of non cold-hardy grapevines. That plot is on the West Coast.

10,000 grape varieties may be a high number, but it doesn't seem that it's too high.

Oh, and the Wine Librarian Association is fabulous. The group is based in Sonoma County but has an international membership (and now one more member--me). Cornell University alone has at least half a dozen libraries that include wine-related collections.

In Sonoma, the association funded a project to restore and put into documentary form films of wine promotion and advertising from its 1950s heyday. It was great to see MFK Fisher on film promoting wine, and Merv Griffin, Vincent Price, and so many others.

[David M. Bueker]

I've only has (for sure) 137 so far. Looks like I have a lot of work to do.

I keep thinking of angels dancing on the head of a pin. Lots of them...

I keep thinking of angels dancing on the head of a pin. Lots of them...

Just as long as they ain't devils like those little yeasty things...

5,000 in Italy alone. Wow.

But, this is one of those cases where - like language - many of the different varieties are actually quite similar? I.E. the difference between each of these 10,000 varieties is not as drastic as the difference between pinot noir and cabernet sauvignon.

[quote="Thomas"]I've read that as much as 10,000 grape varieties have tendrils spreading this earth (with about half that number in Italy).[quote]

I often read or hear people say 2000-plus varieties in Italy, but in Bastianch/Lynch's Vino Italiano, they suggest it's more like 800 (while conceding no one knows for sure).

I suspect you're asking about the number of wine-grapes, but including table grapes might alter the count upwards.

Indeed, I cannot help but think that the 10,000 figure includes table grapes. Then again, to visit Greece, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, and a dozen other countries is to realize that wine can be made from virtually any grape. That does not, of course speak to the quality of the wines that will be made.

In Greece and Turkey, for example, literally tens of millions of bottles of wine are made from what are there known as "strawberry grapes" and nearly every household with even the smallest garden or room for a trellis will raise those in order to make wine at home. Only advice I can give, especially on the island of Corfu or Turkish Antalya, not to insult the wine of your host. Other than a bit of aesthetic damage, the wine won't harm you but the insults may find you in the neighborhood hospital.

Oh yes, and in Israel and Palestine, many bottles are made from Dabukki grapes. Great table grapes but ye gods, what bad wines!!!!

Best
Rogov

I think Rahsaan is on the right track. In Italy, many grape varieties go under different names for many grape varieties in France and probably in Greece, too. Daniel also makes a great point that might cover grapes that may not be commercial but still exist.

In the U.S., Texas is reputed to host the greatest number of separate varieties, oops, separate species in the country. On my trip through the USDA/Cornell vineyards, I learned about some of those varieties (and species) that I never knew existed in the country.

Considering that grapevines are prehistoric, they've had a lot of time to have a lot of sex with a lot of distant relatives...

Does it really matter?

What counts is the ones that are most planted.

I know, I know, there's some place in the Arctic Circle where they keep seeds of all known living plants.

Biodiversity.

But it really important?

Best regards,
Alex R.

I know, I know, there's some place in the Arctic Circle where they keep seeds of all known living plants.

Biodiversity.

But it really important?

If you didn't have biodiversity it would be the equivalent of having 100% of your money in stocks and none in income funds. You'd be broke right now. Birdiversity is essential for life to continue.

I know, I know, there's some place in the Arctic Circle where they keep seeds of all known living plants.

Biodiversity.

But it really important?

If you didn't have biodiversity it would be the equivalent of having 100% of your money in stocks and none in income funds. You'd be broke right now. Birdiversity is essential for life to continue.

Thanks, John. I was going there next.

Alex,

I mentioned the number of grape varieties as a means of context for the rest of the story in that post. I was not trying to place any importance on how many varieties there are, only trying to point out the potential vastness of the situation and then to relate what USDA/Cornell are doing. Thread drift is always a condition online--we drifted.

The USDA is collecting all varieties that it can get its hands on, because the scientists believe that it is important for the sake of knowledge, if for nothing else.

I probably should have placed this thread in the basement instead of the wine forum, but as grapes are connected to wine, and the basement flooded right now with political mud, and so on

But to answer your question: anything that has to do with grapes and wine is important to me, and I hope to a few others around here, and as John said about biodiversity...

I
In the U.S., Texas is reputed to host the greatest number of separate varieties in the country. ..

I think you'll find that it is the greatest number of species that Texas has.

I'd guess that Vinifera has the greatest number of varieties because man has been breeding and tending Vinifera for centuries. There may be -- probably are - many varieties of the wild species naturally produced but I don't think that nowadays anyone is particularly interested in recording and indexing them. Munson and Hedrick were keen on indexing and breeding them in the early 1900s, but I don't think there are such latter day enthusiasts.

There may be -- probably are - many varieties of the wild species naturally produced but I don't think that nowadays anyone is particularly interested in recording and indexing them.

Peter, the USDA program is interested in recording and indexing them, and growing them for cuttings so that others can grow them. I was told by the fellow who oversees the project in New York that they generally plant the varieties on their own roots, for "true-ness."

When I walked through some of the rows, I found a few varieties that weren't looking too good, which is why they say that they plant more than one, and they keep tabs on what happens to them. They apparently get cuttings from people the world over who have these "interesting grape vines outside..."

They showed me Native American (and Asian) species that I have never heard of before--not that it means I should have heard of them, since they are obscure and not much in use.

I had a talk with one of the fellows there and he didn't seem to believe that Munson's work is the reason for all those species of vines in Texas. But he offered no alternative reason except that they are there.

I had a talk with one of the fellows there and he didn't seem to believe that Munson's work is the reason for all those species of vines in Texas.

Indeed. The species are native to Texas. Munson indexed them, crossed and hybridised them, and shared their seeds with other devotees such as Herbemont, Jaeger & Longworth who were crossing hybridising with native vines. But they did so for cultivation and probably few of their results survive.

Wild vines run rampart in Texas (and indeed other States -- I saw plenty alongthe roadside in Virginia in the past few days) likely from seeds dropped by birds and animals.

One of the most succesful 'native' vines in Texas is Black Spanish (aka Lenoir) which appears to be a three way hybrid, with vinifera in its lineage, presumably from vinifera vines brought by Spanish priests in the mid 1600's, and which is used a a direct producer and a rootstock.

One of the most succesful 'native' vines in Texas is Black Spanish (aka Lenoir) which appears to be a three way hybrid, with vinifera in its lineage, presumably from vinifera vines brought by Spanish priests in the mid 1600's, and which is used a a direct producer and a rootstock.

Yes, well, that's why it isn't a good rootstock for vinifera, if you want phylloxera resistance.

Peter May wrote:
Munson indexed them, crossed and hybridised them, and shared their seeds with other devotees such as Herbemont, Jaeger & Longworth who were crossing hybridising with native vines. But they did so for cultivation and probably few of their results survive.

Of the 300 or so grape varieties developed by Munson, 65 of them can still be found in the TV Munson Memorial Vineyard located on Grayson County College’s West campus.

Salute

OK, I spent all night counting. I got 9,183. Italy in particular was a bit hairy, with all the varieties that are called different things in different areas. Whew, glad we have a definite answer and that's over.

OK, I spent all night counting. I got 9,183. Italy in particular was a bit hairy, with all the varieties that are called different things in different areas. Whew, glad we have a definite answer and that's over.

It's 9,184. Go back and do it over

One of the most succesful 'native' vines in Texas is Black Spanish (aka Lenoir) which appears to be a three way hybrid, with vinifera in its lineage, presumably from vinifera vines brought by Spanish priests in the mid 1600's, and which is used a a direct producer and a rootstock.

Yes, well, that's why it isn't a good rootstock for vinifera, if you want phylloxera resistance.

You'd think so yet grows well in Texas and France, where Vinifera vines need grafting, and it was used as rootstock succesfully for many years until crosses from it proved even more succesful.