Physical reactions to wine by color: truth or myth?

[Jenise]

I have a friend, Vanessa, who recently decided that red wines give her headaches, so she has switched to white exclusively. In the past, I've known some who made the same complaint about whites.

Another friend, Laura, refuses to drink white because she's on a glycemic avoidance diet, and according to whatever guru she's following reds are 'low' (good) but whites are high.

And I have a brother-in-law who thinks he's allergic to all red wines except St. Emilion, which he believes to be a grape. And no, that's not the only stupid thing about him.

But my point is, a lot of people who have very little wine knowledge subscribe to fairly sweeping generalizations about properties they associate with certain colors of wines. I've heard many over the years.

Vanessa's claim may have some validity--at least, it's a fairly common complaint and the problem seems to have something to do with the tannins in red wines. She's generally drinking newly released wines in the $10 range, and her husband prefers cabernet. Their budget doesn't allow for much more at present, so I can't talk her into buying better wines or aged wines, but I am wondering if there's some basis for urging her to to try some better/aged wines when she's at my house. Before she decided that red wine, all red wine, was the culprit, she really enjoyed the occasional glass of pinot noir I'd pour her.

And then there's Laura. Does wine really know what color it is? Is red wine really better suited to a low-glycemic diet regardless of what grape it is, or is this (as I presume) a generalization based on the belief that most white wines are sweet, not dry?

And then there are Roses.

And Blanc de Noir.

I like curious topics such as this that makes one think and wonder just a little bit. Unfortunately, not being a chemist, I'm of little help in regards to the glycemic aspects of different grapes. I realize I'm going off on a somewhat different topic here but I myself have always been intrigued by how red/white wines are percieved and precisely distinguished from each other as a type (apart from the obvious visual clue - the color itself). It leaves several interesting questions. Do "red wines" have a general "taste" that is distinct from "white wines" (assuming you didnt see that it was red)? Do "white wines" generally have a "taste/character "all their own that is distinguishable from "red wines"? If the latter is true, and if you simply added a neutral/tasteless red dye to the white wine, would you still "taste it" as being more like a white wine? Does it even make sense to think that you can talk about what "white" tastes like versus "red" if color is not present and textural qualities are virtually absent? How much an impact does visual knowledge truly have in how we percieve a red or white wine?

The grape skins contact (or lack of any contact) obviously determine why we see a wine as red or white. I'm not confident myself that I can seperate the impact that color perception plays in how I generally distinguish one type from the other. In fact I would pretty much say that I really cannot seperate it. This probably just reveals a lack of focused tasting experience on my part, I don't know. The reason I admit to being "tricked" by a wine's color lies in the fact that my very favorite wine, champagne, is at its heart a mixture of this colorless red/white mixture!

Is a champagne a red wine or a white wine? Well, it's both, technically (with the exception of blanc de blancs or blanc de noirs...). Yet I never think of champagne as a red wine. Never. And I mean even in its character (obviously it isn't a red wine visually). Quite the opposite. To me it is always a white wine - just a white wine made into a more special, unique, & "romantic" creation (sorry, just had to let my bias take a harmless jab at all other "normal" white wines for a second - no real offense intended to all other still whites). It is always white to me, always elegant (even when it's fuller styled). Doesn't matter whether it's a Krug or Bollinger or a Taittinger Comtes de Champagne (blanc de blancs). To me they are ALL "white"!

Yet there lies my technically incorrect irony. Knowledge-wise, I know better. I know that champagnes are very much "red wines" but never do I taste or feel that way. I'm probably being Mr. Obvious here but I also find that I have trouble escaping the impact tannins play as well in distinguishing between red and white. I know, I'm very intelligent aren't I? Stay tuned next week and I'll tell you all that the difference between ice and water is that ice is hard and water is soft...

But honestly, I do find the role that tannins play in the texture to be such an obvious and overwhelming distinguishing factor that without them I pretty much dont consider any wine "red" (even if the color red could still be present without them). I suppose you could really test my perceptions and reliance on color and tannins by asking me how I feel about Rose champagnes then? Hmmm... good question. I would still NOT say they are "red" to me. Yet I acknowledge they aren't exactly as "white" as their more pure sisters either. So what are we left with here? I cant completely use the no tannins argument since I HAVE detected an ever so slight "grip" in a rose champagne before. I really dont have a good answer other than to say that perhaps I dont find roses to be as "white" as regular ones but STILL find them to be even LESS a "red taste". So I guess I'm inclined to say even Roses are "white" to me (and that is with visual AND a slight textural proof to the contrary!) I think the bottom line may be that unless I'm tasting a big chalky Beringer Private Reserve, I'm NOT ever going to think it tastes "red". So I wonder how "blinded" I truly am by tannins when tasting just the juice of a red grape. Can I really tell the Pinot Noir/Meunier character/taste from the chardonnay in a typical champagne blend? Sometimes I kind of think I can. Others times I really don't think so. While curious, I usually don't even try. I just enjoy the taste/character as a seamless whole (as is intended). Furthermore, if and when I can tell those differences do the Pinot characteristics actually seem "red" to me? I would have to say no, they really don't. Am I just that big a slave to the lack of any visual red color or textural tannins? Yes I think I must be! Does it really matter? No not really. I will still go on believing champagne is the most enjoyable white wine in the world. And, technically, I will still go on always being incorrect but these are fun things to ponder...

Sorry if this isn't exactly what this topic was about but reading the title it sent me off into thinking about all this...


Jeff

I have a friend, Vanessa, who recently decided that red wines give her headaches, so she has switched to white exclusively. In the past, I've known some who made the same complaint about whites.

[deleted text]

Vanessa's claim may have some validity--at least, it's a fairly common complaint and the problem seems to have something to do with the tannins in red wines. She's generally drinking newly released wines in the $10 range, and her husband prefers cabernet. Their budget doesn't allow for much more at present, so I can't talk her into buying better wines or aged wines, but I am wondering if there's some basis for urging her to to try some better/aged wines when she's at my house. Before she decided that red wine, all red wine, was the culprit, she really enjoyed the occasional glass of pinot noir I'd pour her.

Tell Vanessa to take an antihistamine before drinking the red wine and see if that helps. I have a similar problem. The antihistamine largely solves the problem. Make sure it is just an antihistamine and not one that also contains other stuff that may not be compatable with alcohol consumption.

Jenise,

Yes, of course, there's a lot of evidence that red wine can produce headaches more so than whites: histamine is believed the culprit. But some whites, mostly the ones that have gone through ML, can contain other amines, and they may cause headaches. It's about the process the wine has undergone.

As for the glycemic, alcohol acts similarly to sugar in the pancreas (I am a hypoglycemic) so it has to be watched along with just sugar. I discovered a long time ago that eating with dry wine reduces the hypoglycemic problem for me--the more I eat, the more wine I can drink But yes, the docs who tell people that red is better than white do so because they are ill-informed concerning the properties of specific wines. Again, it's about the process of the wine.

The older I get, the less I believe in blanket statements. Re, your brother-in-law: the older I get, the more I tune out such people...

I have a friend, Vanessa, who recently decided that red wines give her headaches, so she has switched to white exclusively....

Give her a poulsard, that'll fix her! (the red wine that acts like a rose).

Seriously though, I've been around long enough that once people know I'm into wines, I hear all sorts of 'information' like this: 'red wines give me headaches' (but give them a sweet red-hybrid and they grin from ear-to-ear), or 'white wines make me break into hives'. For some (Asian folks I've known, mostly), the reaction to any wine/alcohol will make them turn bright red and they get whoozed out quickly, others say something but mean something else, similar to people saying 'I only drink DRY wines' but then they love the raisined style of 'physiologically ripe' wines. Just doesn't make sense, but then you're dealing with people, and they usually don't.

I have a friend, Vanessa, who recently decided that red wines give her headaches, so she has switched to white exclusively....

Give her a poulsard, that'll fix her! (the red wine that acts like a rose).

Seriously though, I've been around long enough that once people know I'm into wines, I hear all sorts of 'information' like this: 'red wines give me headaches' (but give them a sweet red-hybrid and they grin from ear-to-ear), or 'white wines make me break into hives'. For some (Asian folks I've known, mostly), the reaction to any wine/alcohol will make them turn bright red and they get whoozed out quickly, others say something but mean something else, similar to people saying 'I only drink DRY wines' but then they love the raisined style of 'physiologically ripe' wines. Just doesn't make sense, but then you're dealing with people, and they usually don't.

The Asian phenomenon is physiological, it has to do with a large part of the Asian population lacking the enzyme to help break down alcohol to acetaldehyde, a result of metabolizing alcohol.

I guess all of that is no more ridoculous than all the people that claim they are allergic to any wine that got below 90 points from RP (or name your reviewer).

The white wine = more RS bit is because in many cases it it quite true. People talk dry but like to drink sweet, and many producers send out wines that are fairly high - higher than they need to be for taste - in residual sugar, which can be hard to detect if there is enough acidity to balance it. While reds tend to have lower RS, it ain't something you can take for granted.

As for your friends, why bother trying to change their minds, unless you are one of those proselytic personalities that feels obliged to convert the rest of the world to the True Way (and I know you aren't). Let them do what they want and enjoy what they think they like.

One of the comments I hear a lot is that European wines don't give headaches because they do not add sulfites over there.

I can't count how many times I've had to explain...

One of the comments I hear a lot is that European wines don't give headaches because they do not add sulfites over there.

I can't count how many times I've had to explain...

Yes, I too have fielded that particular question more times than I care to recall. The general issue of "red wine headaches" is a vexing one, though. It's well documented enough to have an eponymous syndrome in the medical literature. The picture that has emerged is that there is likely no one source for those headaches. The factors, in order of importance, seem to be:

histamines
tannins
alcohol
dehydration (not unrelated to the above factor)

Remedies suggested have been antihistamines, NSAIDs and water, but there doesn't seem to be one single remedy, either. Regarding Brian's point about interactions between alcohol and drugs, most antihistamines contain a warning not to consume them with alcohol because of often unpredictable synergistic interactions in the liver. Finally, the (East) Asian phenomenon is a deficiency in alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH), the enzyme that metabolizes alcohol to acetaldehyde. A deficiency in the enzyme that converts acetaldehyde to acetic acid would lead to more dire consequences than flushing: that's basically what Antabuse does. BTW, the flushing occurs because alcohol is a vasodilator, which is also why people feel warm after drinking.

Mark Lipton

This reminds me of one guy I knew that was aware I was into wine.

He asked about the headache thing and I told him there was some evidence about red wine being more likely to cause this than white and suggested he try switching to white. Saw him a few months later and he said it hadn't made a bit of difference. Something clicked and I asked him how much he usually drank. He told me he hardly drank at all during the week, but on Friday nights or Saturday he 'only' drank a couple of bottles of wine.....

[Jenise]

The white wine = more RS bit is because in many cases it it quite true. People talk dry but like to drink sweet, and many producers send out wines that are fairly high - higher than they need to be for taste - in residual sugar, which can be hard to detect if there is enough acidity to balance it. While reds tend to have lower RS, it ain't something you can take for granted.

Yes, I realize about the RS factor. But among drier wines, I did not think there'd be a material difference.

As for your friends...Let them do what they want and enjoy what they think they like.

No problem. It's just that Vanessa would prefer to still be able to enjoy red wine, and I would like to help her do that. And Laura--I'd like to help her be able to enjoy white wine and not have that "oh no I broke my diet" guilt because I think she's subscribing to an axiomatic reccomendation that when broken down into specifics is unneccessarily strict. Especially when she comes and stays at my house (she was just here for a week)!

And I have a brother-in-law who thinks he's allergic to all red wines except St. Emilion, which he believes to be a grape.

Well, Jenise, regardless of your opinon of your brother-in-law, St Emilion *is* in fact a grape... It is an alias for Ugni Blanc/Trebbiano and the name is mostly used in Cognac where it is used to make the base wine which is then distilled into brandy which eventually becomes cognac. As it is a white grape, however, your brother-in-law still doesn't know what he is talking about...
Cheers, Anders