I do not like green wine and ham

A couple of nights ago my wife and I opened a red from Chile which turned out to be rather green and woody: I am certain everyone has experienced this at one time or another.

When I suggested that this is most often caused by picking unripe grapes, Debbie wondered why such an event would happen, why would a winery pick and vinify grapes that weren't quite ripe.

I suggested a number of reasons: commercial-financial pressure to get the wine made and get it on the shelves, a poor winemaker or possibly making a decision to pick grapes that are slighly unripe if there is a concern that changing weather patterns (a coming cold snap or rain) could lead to the ruin of the entire crop.

So, my question to the assembled masses is: am I correct in my theory that unripe grapes alone causes this green sapling experience and am I also correct in my guesses as to why this happens?

Look forward to your views.

Your conclusion is correct based on what little I know about vineyard techniques and winemaking, but aren't there also certain varieties that lend themselves to those characteristics, such as cab franc? Also, I think I've read that the way destemming is handled can also have something to do with a wine tasting "woodier" (as well as more tannic).

A couple of nights ago my wife and I opened a red from Chile which turned out to be rather green and woody...

Was this a carmenere?

...why would a winery pick and vinify grapes that weren't quite ripe.

I thought this is what the Champenois do all the time?

Hi Mark.

As it turns out, the wine did have a high percentage (53, I think) of Carmenere, but I have also noticed this in some South American Cabernets. Have also enjoyed a number of Carmeneres that didn't have this drying, woody greeness.

Bruce,

Back in the early days of my wine appreciation (pre-hybrid), I went through a fair amount of Chilean reds: mainly Cab Sauvignon and Merlot. And yes, many of those would display a strong undercurrent of unripe/bell-pepper flavours, even in the midst of good colour (makes you wonder if super-purple or some manufactured pigment may have been used?), and a lot of charry (sometimes even bitter) oak. These wines were extremely common and always came at the low end of the price spectrum - so I think that your theory is correct.

There are wines that are simply "designed" to fit a certain manufacturing price point, and while I know that wine as we purchase it is a commodity, wine per se is not defined as a commodity: it is essentially food. So long as one remains aware of the fact that such wines are designed more in the boardroom than created by nature, one should be OK the next time around ...

I think it might be due to harvesting purely by brix. Grape sugar level is an indicator of the level of maturity of the fruit, but it is not the only consideration. I have heard that in warm, sunny climates it's possible for the sugar level/specific gravity to be in the "harvestable" range but physiologically the fruit is still unripe. Early harvesting might be especially attractive if the objective is also to maintain high acidity.

-Paul W.

Paul makes an excellent point about brix and physiological ripeness.

You also have to take into account the nature of the variety (ies) involved, the place where they are grown, and the method/approach/philosophy used.

Cabernet, Merlot, and the other red Bordeaux varieties, have natural compounds that tend to show 'green' or 'resiny' or 'twiggy' (which I think of as a combination of sap and astringency) flavors on one end of the spectrum. On the other end, they tend to go to black olive, coffee, mushroom, and other darker elements.

Remember that most of the central areas that produce these wines in Chile are hot regions with little or no water, and thus dependent on irrigation. This might exacerbate certain elements listed above, and emphasize them in the resultant wine.

Remember also that the methodology/philosophy/business model is in providing fairly inexpensive grapes for large production at low resale (and thus low profit)....so perhaps the process is not as careful, exacting, or focused on quality so much as quantity ("good enough" versus "good"; or Franzia versus Frog's Leap, let's say. ).

All of this would lead to exactly what you described.