Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
Redwinger
Wine guru
4038
Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:36 pm
Way Down South In Indiana, USA
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34385
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
David M. Bueker wrote:Tom's score is more an expression of extreme dislike IMO. He's probably justified, but don't try to relate his 60 to an equivalent Parker or Tanzer score.
John - Santa Clara wrote:How bad would a "wine" have to be to be worth fewer than 60 points?
John (who never did and still doesn't understand the so-called 100-point system)
Brian K Miller
Passionate Arboisphile
9340
Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am
Northern California
Jon Peterson
The Court Winer
2981
Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:53 pm
The Blue Crab State
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34385
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Brian K Miller wrote:The thing is, I tried a French Merlot-based wine (generic "Bordeaux") that cost $13 and I thought it was delicious. Why are (most) cheap American wines so bad?
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Brian K Miller wrote:The thing is, I tried a French Merlot-based wine (generic "Bordeaux") that cost $13 and I thought it was delicious. Why are (most) cheap American wines so bad? (No notes on the producer )
I've only tried their Zinfandel once. Maybe it was just me, but one trademark term came to mind: "Welch's Grape Juice" The only Zin I've had that was WORSE than the cherry koolaid Rombauer pumps out.
Brian K Miller
Passionate Arboisphile
9340
Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am
Northern California
Rahsaan wrote:Brian K Miller wrote:The thing is, I tried a French Merlot-based wine (generic "Bordeaux") that cost $13 and I thought it was delicious. Why are (most) cheap American wines so bad?
Don't worry, most cheap French wines are bad too. You got lucky with the generic Bordeaux (or more accurately you benefitted from an importer who chose it amidst all the other cheap crap).
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34385
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Brian K Miller
Passionate Arboisphile
9340
Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am
Northern California
Hoke wrote:Brian K Miller wrote:The thing is, I tried a French Merlot-based wine (generic "Bordeaux") that cost $13 and I thought it was delicious. Why are (most) cheap American wines so bad? (No notes on the producer )
I've only tried their Zinfandel once. Maybe it was just me, but one trademark term came to mind: "Welch's Grape Juice" The only Zin I've had that was WORSE than the cherry koolaid Rombauer pumps out.
Now there's sound reasoning:
One report of a US merlot that one person didn't like, followed by one French wine you did like, and the extrapolation is that (most) cheap American wines are bad and most cheap French wines are good? Lovely, Mr. Pot Stirrer and Flamethrower, Esq.
First, most American wines aren't bad. Second, most French wines are not necessarily good. I'd venture to say you had a better chance with American wines than French wines overall, at the price points we're talking about. Yeah, sure, I could choose selectively from each camp and stack the deck any way I wished, but that's just playing around.
Now if you want to get into styles you (or Tom T,) doesn't like, that's a horse of a whole 'nother color (actually, that horse might be best described as 'piebald'). I'm not a big fan of Bogle wines either. Which means absolutely nothing about the quality of other American wines. Or French wines. Or Italian wines. Means I don't like Bogle's style all that much. Careful what you strap on your extrapoltions there, Brian.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Brian K Miller wrote:Hoke wrote:Brian K Miller wrote:The thing is, I tried a French Merlot-based wine (generic "Bordeaux") that cost $13 and I thought it was delicious. Why are (most) cheap American wines so bad? (No notes on the producer )
I've only tried their Zinfandel once. Maybe it was just me, but one trademark term came to mind: "Welch's Grape Juice" The only Zin I've had that was WORSE than the cherry koolaid Rombauer pumps out.
Now there's sound reasoning:
One report of a US merlot that one person didn't like, followed by one French wine you did like, and the extrapolation is that (most) cheap American wines are bad and most cheap French wines are good? Lovely, Mr. Pot Stirrer and Flamethrower, Esq.
First, most American wines aren't bad. Second, most French wines are not necessarily good. I'd venture to say you had a better chance with American wines than French wines overall, at the price points we're talking about. Yeah, sure, I could choose selectively from each camp and stack the deck any way I wished, but that's just playing around.
Now if you want to get into styles you (or Tom T,) doesn't like, that's a horse of a whole 'nother color (actually, that horse might be best described as 'piebald'). I'm not a big fan of Bogle wines either. Which means absolutely nothing about the quality of other American wines. Or French wines. Or Italian wines. Means I don't like Bogle's style all that much. Careful what you strap on your extrapoltions there, Brian.
Guilty as charged.
But....I think it is a matter of style. I prefer astringent and funky to soft and fruity and sweet. I would argue that, to my limited palate, CHEAP Americna wine does suffer in comparison to cheap French wine. As a generalization, not a hard and fast rule. But then, I would agree that reflects good importers and good wine shops. I'm sure there is the equivalent of BV Coastal (or Bogle) in France, too.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
John - it's not the system, but rather how it's used.
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34385
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Brian K Miller
Passionate Arboisphile
9340
Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am
Northern California
Hoke wrote:
I understand you're not really talking about quality, but about the style you prefer---but I'm talking about quality, and I can testify that the really cheap stuff in France is quite often basic swill. (Actually, a lot of the really basic swill is probably EU rather than French.)
Brian K Miller wrote:I would argue that, to my limited palate, CHEAP Americna wine does suffer in comparison to cheap French wine..
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
David M. Bueker wrote:With all due respect Hoke - I disagree.
I'm not a fan of the system, but grade inflation is not the system. The scores have gone up because of improved winemaking and the need for hype and glitz.
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