Zinfandel: Love It, or Loved It and Left?

[David M. Bueker]

...15% abv and up. And that loses my interest.

Me too (what a shock - we agree).

I drank a lot of zins while waiting for other stuff to mature, and developed quite a liking for various different styles. But it doesn't hold my interest the way it used to, mostly because it doesn't develop the type of complexity that I find so intriguing in aged Cabs and others. As all that "other stuff" started to come around, my interest in Zin waned. So now it's a now and then sort of thing. The high-alcohol ones are OK by me as cocktail wines. Zins can go well with pizza, barbecue, and depending on the style, grilled meats. I've also had some great food matches between Ridge Zins and rosemary chicken.

I voted "not bad now and then" but a closer approximation to my position would be "I still like Zinfandels but I'm rather selective of the producer and prefer old vine Zins." Ridge I still buy and an occasional Rosenblum or Steele (from Lake County or Mendocino.) I'm on the mailing list for Biale (which are very high in alcohol and yet somehow taste balanced to me) and loved some earlier Eric Ross but they have been gaining in alcohol lately and seem less attractive to me than before. It's not just a matter of percentage of alcohol because I do like the Biale Zins and also Martinelli but have rejected some other wineries' product which top the 15 or 16% mark. I probably only drink about six bottles a year but it was Lytton Springs which was a landmark red wine for me in the 70's and I really like both Ridge Lytton Springs and Geyserville and, to a lesser extent, the Ridge Dusi Ranch Paso Robles.

I voted "every now and then" but admit I also bought a half-ton in October to make into everyday plonk. So far it's pretty good. Fruit, soft but evident tannin (I added some), not too, too much alcohol, simple but I expect it will take me some time to get tired of it. With about 80 gallons of the stuff, I hope so.

I still like the occaisional Zin, but here, let me define that: I'd say I drink a bottle every 2 years or so. The styles I've liked in the past have changed to a bigger, goopier model and these just don't meld well to the foods I have alongside them. in the past, I've enjoyed Ridge, Williams-Seylem (yes, they made a zin), Nalle, Raffinelli, Storybook, JC Cellars, Castoro Cellars (Paso), Biale. In the earlier bachelor days, this zinfandels used to go very well with all types of pasta dishes, now, many simply overpower.

I chose "every now and again," but of course the story's more complex than that. To paraphrase Reagan, "I didn't leave Zinfandel; it left me." I still have a fair collection of Ridge "Zin"s and still look to a few other producers for Zinfandel: Dashe, Nalle, Swan, Bella. But most Zins I find too simple, too confected and too alcoholic for service with food, which is almost invariably what I look for wine to do. (If I want wine as digestif I'll reach for Port) Cline, Seghesio and Ravenswood I used to buy, but shifts in their winemaking have taken them off my radar screen.

Mark Lipton

Mark you said what I would have said, if I had said anything. I do still have a few Ridge wines, and some Nalle (my favorite zin). However the Nalle has zoomed in price to about $30 per, so I quit buying them, and Ridge is over that. The other thing is that it used to be one could still find zin in the 12.5 to 13 percent alcohol, but not many anymore in that range.

Ridge, however, has held the line on prices remarkably well over the years. When I first got into wine $30 was about as high as I would go for a domestic wine (I would consider going as high as $50 for a European import if it was something I valued) and Ridge was right on that borderline for years! (I see it is still only $35 for a regular-size bottle of Lytton Springs on their website.)

The other thing is that it used to be one could still find zin in the 12.5 to 13 percent alcohol, but not many anymore in that range.

Exactly! As I mentioned above, there was a great little Zin years ago called "Primitiva" (spellt exactly that way - on second checking I see it's a Martin & Weyrich wine!) that was very balanced and nice at the table. But since those days, levels have gone way up (as have prices...) in this age of busty high-octane fashion.

I voted "Every Now and Then", and concur with everyone on the Ridge.

I noticed that there was a LOCAL (Vacaville) zin at the WineStyles shop that claimed a 13% abv alcohol level. Given our climate....I wonder what they did? It was described as almost "rose-ish." I did like one vintage of Sky (although not another), so...experiments may be needed.

None of the survey choices really describe my current relationship with Zin. While I like a good Zin now and then, I haven't been drinking too many CA wines at all. The vast majority of bottles that I consume are in the sub $20 range and frankly CA isn't doing much interesting at that level. Occasionally I find a good value from somewhere like Eaglepoint Ranch, ESJ, or the lower end bottlings of Jaffurs or Ojai, but this sort of stuff isn't that easy to find in my market (NY/NJ).

The classic Ridge bottlings are occasional treats for me and their prices haven't gotten out of line compared with some others. I have a hard time forking over $25 for a wine like the regular estate Zin from Segeshio.

So tell me re Storybrook. I'm intrigued because I'm not familiar with it. According to WSearcher not very available!

Storybook Mountain is owned/run by Dr. Jerry Seps and his charming wife. Dr. Seps was one of the founding members of ZAP, along with Joel Peterson and Kent Rosenblum and if their style has changed at all in the past 30 years, I didn't notice it. They are Zin specialists and have historically made 3-4 different cuvées. The Reserve bottling sees the longest time in (old) oak, is typically the tightest and longest-lived of the wines; in the past decade or so, my favorite bottling has been the Eastern Exposures, which usually sees a bit of viognier added and is a bit more forward (that is to say, I only age it for 10 or so years). Their Zins are often referred to as "Claret-like," though really they're just highly structured Zins. The Mayacamas Range bottling I've had a couple of times at the winery, but I don't have a clear sense of what it's all about. The wines are tough to find in the open market, and they're only open to visits by appointment. The winery is located N of Calistoga, on Hwy 29 as it begins its journey over to the Alexander Valley, on the Eastern slopes of the Mayacamas mountains.

Mark Lipton

The Seps are personal friends for many years, in fact my wife is in a tasting group with Sigrid his wife. There's hope for you yet Mark, Jerry was a prof before turning to wine makeing.

One more thing about Zin....

It is the red varietal that has kept American home wine-makers "in the grape" for almost a century! Those grapes from Lodi make a wine full of character (like no other) that goes very well with a plate of salami & cheese, or with pasta and a marinara with lots of pecorino & black pepper on top!

Speaking about the highish alcohol of many Zins ... I do occasionally wonder what a Zin grown a bit further north might be like - say, from Oregon or Washington? Are there any up there?

Dave Erickson wrote: Funny you should say that. I can't remember where I read it--might have been Jancis--but someone wrote that zinfandel in the U.S. was treated much the way shiraz was in Australia: It could be made into truly superior wine, but with so much of it around, hardly anyone bothered

Both zinfandel and shiraz seem to have the ability to ripen up into something huge and sugary, and I guess it's not surprising that some wines made from both varieties end up completely over the top. I don't know if the problem is that hardly anyone bothers to make them into better quality stuff ... but it is true that there is a lot of time and effort and fermenter space that goes into making substantial amounts of Oz shiraz into crowd pleasers with obvious tastes and not much complexity. I guess that's because there is a market for it. Same with zinfandel?

One more thing about Zin....

It is the red varietal that has kept American home wine-makers "in the grape" for almost a century! Those grapes from Lodi make a wine full of character (like no other) that goes very well with a plate of salami & cheese, or with pasta and a marinara with lots of pecorino & black pepper on top!

Marco, you just made me both hungry, and thirsty! And me dieting on wine probation!

[David M. Bueker]

... but it is true that there is a lot of time and effort and fermenter space that goes into making substantial amounts of Oz shiraz into crowd pleasers with obvious tastes and not much complexity. I guess that's because there is a market for it. Same with zinfandel?

Actually in some circles (not here obviously) it is the high-octane fruit punch style that is considered high quality and which fetches high prices.

Hi Paul,
There are some scattered plantings of Zinfandel in Southern Oregon.

Salute

Voted "Now and then", but when I first got into wine I loved the stuff. As with most of the rest of you, it's become somewhat rare for me to find a zin I really like.

I like zinfandel. By that I mean Storybook, Ridge and Ravenswood, the only three I've kept in my cellar over the years.

The Seps are personal friends for many years, in fact my wife is in a tasting group with Sigrid his wife. There's hope for you yet Mark, Jerry was a prof before turning to wine makeing.

Now that I know that, Lou, I'll be sure to drop your name (and BettyLu's) when trying to get an appointment there. Usually, we're in Calistoga between Xmas and New Year's -- not the greatest time to be visiting wineries.

Mark Lipton

The Seps are personal friends for many years, in fact my wife is in a tasting group with Sigrid his wife. There's hope for you yet Mark, Jerry was a prof before turning to wine makeing.

Now that I know that, Lou, I'll be sure to drop your name (and BettyLu's) when trying to get an appointment there. Usually, we're in Calistoga between Xmas and New Year's -- not the greatest time to be visiting wineries.

Mark Lipton

Please do, you might get lucky and it could help.

Tonite downtown, I was helping out at the annual WS Top 100 tasting. The `07 Seghesio Zin (#10 in the hundred) was a pleasant surprise. Light in color (unusual)lots of blueberry and brambleberry, soft tannins but a lighter style. Quite a contrast to other recent vintages, very nice but drink now style.

I, along with some of my acquaintances, really liked the 2002 Seghesio Sonoma Zinfandel (which "Wine Spectator" gave 92 points) but were a little less enthused with the 2003. I will try to secure some of the 2007 to try.