Primitivo vs. Zinfandel - thought it was resolved . . . .

Hello Folks,

I had thought that the genetics tests were back, and it had been firmly established, after long anecdotal support, that Zinfandel is genetically identical to at least one strain of Primitivo. But, last month I had a friend (who is also a wine shop owner) tell me that the tests weren't back yet. Can anybody clear this up?

Thanks,
Ryan

You friend is just dead wrong.
The work CaroleMeredith did definitively establish that Zin (Calif), Primitivo (Apulia), and ChrylnakCastellanski (Croatia) are all one in the same. And that Chrylnak (sp?) was the original and the other two are mere transplants.
Be aware that today's DNA testing cannot distinguish betweeen clones and that there are probably clonal differences betwixt Zin and Primitivo. In Calif, Zin & Primitivo certainly look/grow differently in the vnyd and make somewhat different wines. GeorgeHendry makes a Zin and a Primitivo from the same vnyd and it's interesting to taste them side-by-side. The differences are not dramatic, but they are different.
Tom

Thanks Tom. I was really surprised when he told me this, because I seem to remember reading the new release that presented the results.

That's "Crljenak Kaštelanski," please.

And thanks for reminding me why I can never remember the name, much less how to spell it or even say it.

...In Calif, Zin & Primitivo certainly look/grow differently in the vnyd and make somewhat different wines. GeorgeHendry makes a Zin and a Primitivo from the same vnyd and it's interesting to taste them side-by-side. The differences are not dramatic, but they are different.
Tom

So, this begs the question, as posed in another thread, are the Zin and Primitivo from the same vineyard growing on the same or different rootstocks? Enquiring minds, etc.

So, this begs the question, as posed in another thread, are the Zin and Primitivo from the same vineyard growing on the same or different rootstocks? Enquiring minds, etc.

My recollection is that they're grown on the same rootstock. George wanted them to be grown as closely to the Zin as possible so he could identify the differing characteristics.
Tom

The work CaroleMeredith did definitively establish that Zin (Calif), Primitivo (Apulia), and ChrylnakCastellanski (Croatia) are all one in the same. And that Chrylnak (sp?) was the original and the other two are mere transplants.
Be aware that today's DNA testing cannot distinguish betweeen clones and that there are probably clonal differences betwixt Zin and Primitivo. In Calif, Zin & Primitivo certainly look/grow differently in the vnyd and make somewhat different wines. GeorgeHendry makes a Zin and a Primitivo from the same vnyd and it's interesting to taste them side-by-side. The differences are not dramatic, but they are different.

Just to allay any confusion among those who read of this, when Prof. Meredith declares that Zin and Primitivo are "genetically the same," that doesn't actually mean that they have identical genomes, but rather that the degree of difference between the two genomes doesn't rise to the level of different varieties. This in turn gives rise to the atypical usage of the term "clone" in Prof. Meredith's writing. In genetics, a clone is a genetically identical offspring; Prof. Meredith (and most viticultarists) uses the word clone to refer to closely related plants that are classified as the same variety but which display different characteristics and have slightly different genomes. By this usage, we all would be considered different clones of H. sapiens (I think -- any Neanderthals posting to WLDG?)

Mark Lipton

By this usage, we all would be considered different clones of H. sapiens (I think -- any Neanderthals posting to WLDG?)

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