WTNs: Seven days in Paris + the usual diaristic musings

On to more serious matters: I was shocked that you are in bed with another message board! How could you?

Lots of overlap in participation between the two sites!

Although slightly different tones of discussion..

Oswaldo, thanks for the very detailed and interesting report of your Paris trip – a real opportunity to re-live some great experiences in one of our favourite cities.

I am sorry that your meal at Taillevent did not live up to your expectations although you were pretty positive about most things except your appetizer and the prices. We have greatly enjoyed every dinner we have had there but of course the pound was worth a lot more Euros on all previous occasions. Meals at equivalent London restaurants were even more expensive in the past but exchange rates movements [with the Bank of England rate at a lowest ever 0.5%] have certainly swapped that around.

BTW the 2005 Huet Vouvray Haut Lieu Sec would have been 13% ABV – at least on the label. Currently drinking this vintage but will keep half the case back and drink over an extended period.

I was interested in your search for the Gang of 5 Beaujolais since I buy all their wines except Chamonard’s who IIRC died many years ago although his daughter continued the winemaking.

I have to say that I don’t recognise the negative comments made by others about Marcel Lapierre since I found him and his son approachable and not banging on obsessively about Steiner’s philosophy/ideology/religion of biodynamics – certainly quite different to Joly and their wines are invariably delicious unlike some of Monsieur Joly’s with the Coulee de Serrant frankly bizarre on occasions. ‘Interesting’ would be the kindest description I could muster of certain vintages.

In any case as I recall Jules Chauvet was the the Gang of 5's inspiration and the little I have read of his approach indicates a far less ideological and authoritarian regime.

On to more serious matters: I was shocked that you are in bed with another message board! How could you?

Lots of overlap in participation between the two sites!

Although slightly different tones of discussion..

I think it is good that Robin allows this kind of link. Over on the UK wine forum, I think cries of derision if I was to attempt that.

I think it is good that Robin allows this kind of link. Over on the UK wine forum, I think cries of derision if I was to attempt that.

Blimey, you too fool around elsewhere?

I am sorry that your meal at Taillevent did not live up to your expectations although you were pretty positive about most things except your appetizer and the prices. We have greatly enjoyed every dinner we have had there but of course the pound was worth a lot more Euros on all previous occasions. Meals at equivalent London restaurants were even more expensive in the past but exchange rates movements [with the Bank of England rate at a lowest ever 0.5%] have certainly swapped that around.

The only other time I went was 1989, and it set a paradigm of excellence for me then, for sure. Perhaps it has something to do with the passing of M. Vrinat.

I was interested in your search for the Gang of 5 Beaujolais since I buy all their wines except Chamonard’s who IIRC died many years ago although his daughter continued the winemaking.

For what it's worth, Alice Feiring wrote in her blog "The wine that I fell in love with was Domaine Chamonard made by Genevieve and Jean Claude Chanudet." Later she adds: "Big Joe just phoned to tell me that Chamonard wasn't a natural winemaking guy and though he is reportedly one of the Gang of Five, it really isn't so." Source:

http://www.alicefeiring.com/feiringsquad/000198.html

I have to say that I don’t recognise the negative comments made by others about Marcel Lapierre since I found him and his son approachable and not banging on obsessively about Steiner’s philosophy/ideology/religion of biodynamics – certainly quite different to Joly and their wines are invariably delicious unlike some of Monsieur Joly’s with the Coulee de Serrant frankly bizarre on occasions. ‘Interesting’ would be the kindest description I could muster of certain vintages.

Alas, I've never tasted Coulee de Serrant, but comments by Richard Kelly and others on Joly (perhaps consistent with yours, though you don't mention oxidation) make me wonder if it isn't in Joly's best interests to develop an oxidative-friendly (or immune) palate since wines made his way are exposed to so much oxygen along the way that they are much more likely to become oxidised in a way that is unacceptable to most.

See: http://www.thewinedoctor.com/tastingspr ... rant.shtml
and
http://www.richardkelley.co.uk/joly.htm

In any case as I recall Jules Chauvet was the the Gang of 5's inspiration and the little I have read of his approach indicates a far less ideological and authoritarian regime.

In the natural wine stores and bistros in Paris his spirit hovers like that of a patron saint.

See: http://www.morethanorganic.com/jules-chauvet

I also remember seeing one of his books on the window of Cave des Papilles. He seems to have made a mark on the Loire as much as Morgon.

I think it is good that Robin allows this kind of link. Over on the UK wine forum, I think cries of derision if I was to attempt that.

Blimey, you too fool around elsewhere?

there's a good half dozen posters here that frequent other forums. though I must say I have always enjoyed the friendly tone of this board notwithstanding i got lost on the chat and the lenghty discussion about Maria.

I have to say that I don’t recognise the negative comments made by others about Marcel Lapierre since I found him and his son approachable and not banging on obsessively about Steiner’s philosophy/ideology/religion of biodynamics – certainly quite different to Joly and their wines are invariably delicious unlike some of Monsieur Joly’s with the Coulee de Serrant frankly bizarre on occasions. ‘Interesting’ would be the kindest description I could muster of certain vintages.

Nigel

I picked up one of M Joly's Coulee de Serrant 97 recently for an upcoming wine lunch with some friends. After a rather bizarre experience last night with a white Neuf du Pape, I am now wondering about the Joly. Frankly I found the white CNdP damn near undrinkable althou it did seem to blow off some of the oxidative petrol nose over the 3 hours the bottle sat on the table. Now I seem to recall someone saying I should open the Joly 24 hours before drinking. Given your prior experience with the stuff, any suggestions for a novice on how to get the most out of the bottle.

I have to say that I don’t recognise the negative comments made by others about Marcel Lapierre since I found him and his son approachable and not banging on obsessively about Steiner’s philosophy/ideology/religion of biodynamics – certainly quite different to Joly and their wines are invariably delicious unlike some of Monsieur Joly’s with the Coulee de Serrant frankly bizarre on occasions. ‘Interesting’ would be the kindest description I could muster of certain vintages.

Nigel

I picked up one of M Joly's Coulee de Serrant 97 recently for an upcoming wine lunch with some friends. After a rather bizarre experience last night with a white Neuf du Pape, I am now wondering about the Joly. Frankly I found the white CNdP damn near undrinkable althou it did seem to blow off some of the oxidative petrol nose over the 3 hours the bottle sat on the table. Now I seem to recall someone saying I should open the Joly 24 hours before drinking. Given your prior experience with the stuff, any suggestions for a novice on how to get the most out of the bottle.

Mark

I am sorry if I sounded as though I have a lot of experience of Coulee de Serrant. Actually it is only 4 bottles spread over 7 vintages from the early 90s to the 2002 but all were quite different in presentation: colour, nose and taste although all had, to a greater or lesser extent, a distinctively oxidative or ‘sherried’ quality.

Colour varied from a pale gold to a dark gold with a tangerine component rather like the few premoxed white burgundies I have had.

Nose: generally oxidative and a couple had the added whiff of VA – not unpleasant to me. Dried fruits and hazel nuts but each bottle had its quite distinctive character with different components within that generalisation. The taste also varied considerably from bottle to bottle to the extent that I found it difficult to discern any continuity.

Of course the fact is that I have had very little of this wine and it would be more useful if you had better information from a regular consumer. I can tell you that it will never be a wine that I would choose purely for pleasure and its price, always pretty high, is now above any desire I have to continue experimenting.

I can say that from my first bottle we never finished it in one session and time spent in the fridge after opening never caused deterioration and IIRC actually improved it on occasions although that may be ‘recovered memory’ syndrome.

In summary it is IMO an oddity not worth the money as a drinking experience on a continuing basis but an interesting insight into an extreme Chenin Blanc. On the other hand there are so many really lovely Savennieres that do not twist and tweak one’s senses unmercifully e.g. Eric Morgat’s L'Enclos, 2005 – really lovely stuff without the controversy.

To be fair my experience of the ‘Coulee’ makes me think of the first time as a young man I tried a top Fino sherry – too warm and out of synch with mood and surroundings. Years later in Spain after a brilliant summer day on a terrace at the Hotel Aigua Blava with olives and tapas it clicked and I can enjoy it now in a variety of situations. But e.g. a Tio Pepe at £9 a bottle versus a Coulee at 6 times that price makes for an easy choice both in terms of a consistently familiar taste and lack of wallet pain.

So my small experience is of little use or relevance to you. For what it’s worth I believe the 97 Coulee has been both highly appreciated and pilloried so prepare yourself for an experience and I doubt whatever happens in terms of exposure to air, even over several days, will do anything negative to it. In short I would make sure it has plenty of air and perhaps try it over an extended period as others have suggested. It is not something I have done although it was always drunk over 2 days.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy it. I am sure you will find it interesting and please let us know what you think of the experience.

[James Roscoe]

Was Jeff Koons still at Versailles? I notice no mention of the "great" 20th Century artist. I also spent three years living across from the Frick museum in Pittsburgh, give me the Jacquemart-André Museum any day! You drank a lot of wine in seven days! Paris is great. (I have a great recco in DC for a medical museum if you get up here.)

Hi, Jim, Koons was gone by the time we went there. I loved seeing the original puppy in Germany in 1992 and a later recreation at Rockefeller Center. Didn't know there was Frick in Pittsburgh! I meant the one in Manhattan, which is sensational. I'll mention the medical museum to Marcia; maybe she can go while I go shopping!

This tells you what I know. The Fricks were a Pittsburgh family that made there money in Pennsylvania steel and oil. The old Frick mansion is on a block between Penn Ave. and Reynolds Ave. in the Point Breeze section of the city. There is a lovely little museum attached to the house with a splendid collection of Impressionist paintings. I have not been to NYC since I was a kid so I don't know the art museums there. DC has some excellent art spaces so I am pretty happy.

The National Medical Museum is near Walter Reed Hospital and the Medical Library. Your wife will have a ball. Come in the summer and we can hit a local wine bar while she is perusing the galleries.

there's a good half dozen posters here that frequent other forums...

Try several dozen!

there's a good half dozen posters here that frequent other forums...

Try several dozen!

Or more!!

Nigel,

Many thanks for the input. I have actually found it very helpful. I was going to bring the people to a lunch for 3 but after consuming a highly oxidative style white CNdP on Saturday, I may save it for a larger wine geeks get together that is coming up. It sounds as though a glass will be enjoyable but a third of a bottle may just be too much.

Cheers
Mark

Just got this update from one of Breton's U.S. importers:


"Just heard from Pierre Breton. These are not special blends but special labels for commercial reasons for Lavinia in several countries. The Bourgueil is Trinch, the Chinon is Beaumont, and the Vouvray is La Dilettante."
posted by Joe Dressner 3-9-2009 11:19am

Just got this update from one of Breton's U.S. importers:


"Just heard from Pierre Breton. These are not special blends but special labels for commercial reasons for Lavinia in several countries. The Bourgueil is Trinch, the Chinon is Beaumont, and the Vouvray is La Dilettante."
posted by Joe Dressner 3-9-2009 11:19am

Thanks for clearing that up. The La Dilettante Vouvray is a bargain at Eur 13. Would buy some here if I could find it for less than $20, but the only listing on wine-searcher is over $30...