Wine Discussion - Don't you dare disagree

[David M. Bueker]

Here's the question for today:

Why do so many of us have so much emotional capital invested in our opinions about wine. At the end of the day it's only fermented grape juice, and there's plenty of different wines to go around. I know I fall prey to a defensive attitude about my preferences on a regular basis. How about other folks? Why do you think the (for lack of a better analogy) political frenzy has caught up to wine? Is it just the semi-faceless internet that has caused this, or is wine just suffering from a general extension of the us/them attitudes that seem to pervade daily life?

Projection.

Some people can't separate themselves from what they associate themselves with.

It's a natural tendency for humans, and it's even more natural for humans who aren't fully developed (in the egoist sense). And it's further exacerbated by the current emphasis on marketing/advertising, where we are constantly told that what we are associated with reveals something about us personally, and establishes social hierarchy.

So we have the hypothetical "I'm not rich, but I wear a Rolex, drive a Bentley, and wear a perfume that makes me ravishingly attractive to fashion models."

Or we could just say that when you're dissing something we like, you're saying we have poor taste and judgement.

You ignorant slug.

(On the other hand, when you agree with me, you're a highly perceptive and sophisticated guy.)

[David M. Bueker]

We are what we drink.

So I guess I am Donnhoff.

That explains a lot.

David
I guess it depends where you hang out - in general I find plenty of wine geeks where I hang out, but not too many who let passions and tensions run too strong (though one or two subjects can be a little dangerous).

That said, I know that there are other forums where an article here, an off the cuff comment there... and all of a sudden the lynch mob have got pitchforks at the ready and just want to know which way to the castle.

Not places I like to hang out.

regards

Ian

[David M. Bueker]

That said, I know that there are other forums where an article here, an off the cuff comment there... and all of a sudden the lynch mob have got pitchforks at the ready and just want to know which way to the castle.

The secondary question is why Pinot Noir seems to cause so much fuss.

I make no apologies for my preferences and taste in wine, and I don't expect others to make apologies for theirs. I'd like to think we're all in this for the love it, and share our experiences and notes because we believe others will enjoy them, not because we want to pick a fight. The one thing I'm critical of its those who can't see past fruit bombs and thus refuse to appreciate other styles.

I make no apologies for my preferences and taste in wine, and I don't expect others to make apologies for theirs. I'd like to think we're all in this for the love it, and share our experiences and notes because we believe others will enjoy them, not because we want to pick a fight. The one thing I'm critical of its those who can't see past fruit bombs and thus refuse to appreciate other styles.

Ryan, I could make a serious case for sentence three to directly contradictt what you said in sentences one and two.

Here's the question for today:

Why do so many of us have so much emotional capital invested in our opinions about wine.

Is it really so on this forum? I like it here precisely because we have so many open minded people. Have I missed some recent trends, because I thought the participants here do respect each others' preferences?

[David M. Bueker]

Here's the question for today:

Why do so many of us have so much emotional capital invested in our opinions about wine.

Is it really so on this forum? I like it here precisely because we have so many open minded people. Have I missed some recent trends, because I thought the participants here do respect each others' preferences?

No Otto you have not. I am asking the question here precisely because of the more open/un-heated discussions we seem to have (except about politics).

Ryan, I could make a serious case for sentence three to directly contradict what you said in sentences one and two.

What? What do you mean? I'm completely self-consistent.

I'll probably dig myself into a whole if I try to argue the point (you are a formidable one after all), but I think you appreciate the spirit of my comments.

Best Wishes,
Ryan

IMHO there are three things good about the “World of wine”. (1) An “up and coming” winemaker, one who does not have “international” recognition, but posses’ great knowledge and understanding could produce an “outstanding” wine. Once he/she gains “celebrity” status or “international” recognition and his/her wines get out of my price range, its time for me to move on and discover another. (2) When I get “tired” of a certain style or type of wine I can always move onto another. And (3) if a certain wine is being given a lot of “attention” (by a famous wine critic or a number of wine critics; a person, or group of people such as those who post here, and over the years I have gained great admiration and respect) I have the choice to seek out that wine and give it a try (and see for myself –what is all the Hoop-o-la is about).

Salute

Victor
Your (2) is great. Having an open and enquiring mind presents the best opportunities. Being a trenchant New worlder / Old Worlder (or any such cut) limits our opportunities to taste interesting wines and to find something apt for the mood or occasion (or at least the dinner).

regards

Ian

Why do so many of us have so much emotional capital invested in our opinions about wine

Wine? Didn't you mean college basketball?

[David M. Bueker]

Why do so many of us have so much emotional capital invested in our opinions about wine

Wine? Didn't you mean college basketball?

Well I am leading in my group's tourney bracket. But it won't last, as I have all my freaky picks next weekend.

We are what we drink....

So, I must be home made. As Ryan said:

I make no apologies for my preferences and taste in wine, and I don't expect others to make apologies for theirs.

I am somewhat limited in my overall exposure to certain wines. For instance, Rhones and Syrah/Shiraz in general do not impress me. Likewise with Sauvignon Blanc. I still have yet to try Viognier and Gruner Veltliner. I tend to be provincial, in the sense that I buy more locally made wines. This is not a bad thing, as I do not live far from the Niagara Peninsula or the Finger Lakes. That being said, I like several white hybrids and prefer some of them to some white vineferas, but I've only ever had one red hybrid that rocked my boat, and that was about 25 years ago. The few Spanish and Italian reds I liked, but generally, I like colder climate grapes. I'm not sure if this rambling is on topic, but, what the hell.

It seems to me that a lot more emotion goes into threads about the winemaking process (closures, bottles, brett, et al) than about particular wines or wine regions.

The folks who post on this board seem to be extremely agreeable, or at least politely disagreeable. Other than a few ill tempered posters who show up briefly, attempt to foment discord, and then get shown the door the people here are very decent. Try posting as an evolutionist on creationist discussion sites and you will know what vehement disagreement is.

...Try posting as an evolutionist on creationist discussion sites and you will know what vehement disagreement is.

Sam - why would you do that?

David,

I have been drinking wine and collecting for consumption for over 30 years now. I have worked in the industry and not most of the time. I love the stuff and the journey of exploration. One thing I have learnt in 30 years however is that there is always someone who knows more than I about some facet of the world of wine. It is one reason I love and inhabit the wine forums in order to learn from others who have their own fields of obsession be it German rieslings, Burgundies or Middle Eastern wine. One can not pursue that path of learning however if one's ego comes first. It is one thing to have a view on a wine, that is the nature of a passion, it is other thing to disregard and not hear the views of others.

Mark
PS I enjoy this forum and as soon as my doctor says I can drink again, perhaps I may have something more to contribute.

I enjoy this forum and as soon as my doctor says I can drink again, perhaps I may have something more to contribute.

Sorry to hear your news, Mark. May your abstination be short and sweet and the need to see your doctor similarly brief.

Sam - why would you do that?

Howie,

There is something about blatant lies being to told in order to indoctrinate those with poorly developed critical thinking skills that really pisses me off. Sometimes one has to engage the enemy on their home turf.

I think it's a two part issue. I think it's great that people are passionate about the wine they love. Glowing descriptions of wines I have seen here have certainly gotten me to try things outside of my regular buying patterns...and that's a great thing. However the downside is that sometimes, in some discussions the very things that make people passionate about what they love occaisionaly causes them say less glowing things about things they, shall we say, love less. And when one disparages something that that someone else loves, the potenial for conflict can arise.

My next door neighbors love Silver Oak. I have discretely given them some reds that are more to my taste but they still think Silver Oak is the wine for them. So what? Not only would I never consciously offend them but I went out and bought them a bottle of it last Xmas. And I'd like to think everyone acts this way with people they actually know and like... they respect their friend's taste even if they don't share it. But seemingly something about the internet allows us to not respect the tastes and opinions of others as much as we probably would face to face. I am as guilty as any. But I'm trying to become wiser as I age and now usually will only say that a wine I don't like is simply not to my taste (barring very rare cases where the wine clearly defective). Critics are in a different position because it is the essence of their job to rank and rate wines but few are professional critics. I just think that wine people as a broad generalization spend entirely too much time ranking and comparing wines (and by association people's personal tastes) and too little time enjoying wines for the pleasure that they are. Last night I drank an $8 Spanish Granache. It really tasted a bit too much like soda pop for me to purchase much of it but I really enjoyed it last night with my friends and some snacks and overall it was a really good wine experience that I wouldn't trade for anything.

Best Wishes,
Glenn

The secondary question is why Pinot Noir seems to cause so much fuss.

If you are refering to what I believe you are over on E-bob, that is largely due to the number of growers and winemakers that participate. You know the ones. To me it seems they feel required to defend the product that they make. Their participation then draws out the folks that hate that style of wine. Some folks just love to disagree and will seek out the best place to make their case. You don't seem to see that type of disagreement here because the growers/winemakers, with a few exceptions, don't visit here (or stay long) and as such there is no reason for the haters to be here either.

I agree with Hoke's comment. If they dis the wine you like, it seems to say you have poor taste. Most of us take pride in our taste whether it's in the clothes we select, the way we furnish our homes, the wines we buy and serve or for others, musical tastes, selection of an automobile, etc.