What is your top "off-beat" grape?

I don't know if they are really 'off-beat' but two grapes that I don't usually drink but wish I could drink more of are lagrein and mondeuse. From my limited experience they have intriguing characters but I haven't had enough opportunity to explore them in-depth. Hence they remain 'off beat' from my usual routine.

[David M. Bueker]

Those are pretty off-beat Rahsaan.

No one top grape for me, but the following less common grapes would have a welcome regular place in my lineup of wines: hondarrabi zuri, lagrein, mencía, plavac mali, silvaner (from Franken in Germany), and verdejo (not really offbeat there--I just don't drink enough of them).

I have had some experiences with other wines that would make me very favorably disposed to exploring wines made from the following grapes further: baco noir, catawba, chambourcin, charbono, coda di volpe, dolcetto, erbaluce, fumin, garganega, grignolino, humagne rouge, moschofilero, norton, petite arvine, petit rouge, pineau d'aunis, poulsard, and teroldego.

No one top grape for me, but the following less common grapes would have a welcome regular place in my lineup of wines: hondarrabi zuri, lagrein, mencía, plavac mali, silvaner (from Franken in Germany), and verdejo (not really offbeat there--I just don't drink enough of them).

I have had some experiences with other wines that would make me very favorably disposed to exploring wines made from the following grapes further: baco noir, catawba, chambourcin, charbono, coda di volpe, dolcetto, erbaluce, fumin, garganega, grignolino, humagne rouge, moschofilero, norton, petite arvine, petit rouge, pineau d'aunis, poulsard, and teroldego.

Not a bad list.

I think one reason I am less likely to explore 'off-beat' grapes in general is because I am such a fan of mono-cepage wines and 'purity'. There are relatively few grapes that can handle that spotlight and the reason many 'off-beat' grapes are not in that spotlight is because they have traditionally been used as relatively-minor blending grapes. (Not that many of the grapes in your list don't make fabulous mono-cepage wines).

But, I guess geography also plays a big role because right now we are most familiar with the grapes from France and to some extent Italy, Spain, and Germany. But, as more winemaking traditions from around the world receive more attention, all of this is sure to change.

I just find the living in the midwest arguement when it comes to Chambourcin somewhat hard to accept.

Hey Brian,

"Hard to accept" is a surprisingly strong statement. Could you elaborate? I'm not sure what 'living in the Midwest' has to do with it, though. Chambourcin was not an acquired taste for me - it was 'love at first site.' And it wasn't through acclimation to hybrids: that was early enough in my wine drinking life that I'd only been exposed to a few, and to this day, I still dislike most of the hybrids I didn't like when I first tasted them (i.e., living in the midwest and being exposed to them has not changed my tastes, although it has allowed me to experience about the best that most of the hybrids are capable of - which often isn't much, I should note). Perhaps I don't entirely understand what you're getting at. But I will say this: I like Chambourcin because I like Chambourcin - it has a delightful charm for me, and it 'resonates' with my personality somehow. And I don't find that particular kind of charm it delivers in any other grape - and for that I seek it out. In short, I make no apologies for my tastes.

Incidentally, I've heard good things about Cab Franc from the Ohio River Valley, and had been meaning to try one, but just hadn't gotten around to it (and not for lack of wanting mind you - damn my grad student salary).

Best Wishes,
Ryan

"Hard to accept" is a surprisingly strong statement. Could you elaborate?

I am sure I could have worded that better. When I was in the midwest, I found that many folks believed that vinifera could not successfully, or at least profitably, be grown. Hybrids were considered the way to go, predominately for winter hardiness. There were the few crazy folks who would bury their vinifera vines each fall but the extra work required did not make this acceptable to most people. Of all the red hybrids out there, I find that Chambourcin makes the wine that I appreciate the most and it seems that many felt the same as it seemed that almost everyone was making one. Only thing is Chambourcin is one of the most cold tender hybrids out there. It also requires a long growing season. Such that once one looks closely at it Chambourcin does not offer the same benefits as the other hybrids and behaves more like Cabernet Franc.

My issue is really more with the growers and winemakers who seem to have accepted that vinifera can not be grown yet continue to grow/make Chambourcin. Or worse, they want to keep the consumers believing that hybrids are the grapes of the midwest so they can continue to sell there "home grown" wines while importing vinifera from out of state. I know only a few folks that would be willing to drink Chambourcin over Cabernet Franc if both wines were made properly, reasonably priced and came from within the state. But if the vinifera cost substantially more and comes from out of state, well then things look different to the consumer.

In short, I make no apologies for my tastes.

Nor should you.

Ah, okay Brian, got it. Personally I'd be thrilled to see the Midwest have success with vinifera, and you know, I think I agree that if a winery in the Midwest offered both a Chambourcin and a Cab Franc at the same price, I'd be more likely to try the Cab Franc. The problem for me is that, whether its true or not, wineries in the Midwest that grow vinifera seem to act like it's expensive to produce, and they price it accordingly. Although, Huber Winery in southern Indiana seems to have consistent success with their Cab Franc, which is only $20 - 25, and now available here in Bloomington. Unfortunately, I don't get to spend that much on a single bottle often, and when I do, I have so many other things I want to try, and don't want to blow it on something that might only be curiosity value (I am so glad the end of grad school is in sight).

But, even if inexpensive vinifera were available from the Midwest, I would still want a nice Chambourcin here and there.

I haven't read all the previous postings here so forgive me if any of these are repetitious: Zierfandler, Rotgipfler, Gelber Muskateller, Schilcher and Friulano.

[Robin Garr]

Incidentally, I've heard good things about Cab Franc from the Ohio River Valley, and had been meaning to try one, but just hadn't gotten around to it (and not for lack of wanting mind you - damn my grad student salary).

Ryan, Huber Orchard & Winery in Starlight, Ind., on the Knobs just about Louisville, makes a small amount of a surprisingly good Cab Franc (100% estate grown), and they want $19.99 for the 2005, which isn't an awful deal.

Here's what I wrote about it after a Huber tasting dinner at the (sadly defunct) Rockwall Bistro in Floyds Knobs, Indiana, last year:

Braised lamb - inch-thick rib chop, on the bone - was long-braised, served with roasted shallots and red-skin potatoes on a plate decorated with thick, sweet dots of 10-year-old balsamic vinegar. It married well with Huber’s Cabernet Franc, an Indiana-grown red European-style grape variety. The wine is relatively light in color with peppery and “herbaceous” aromas over fresh red-berry fruit, dry and tart, not unlike a Chinon or other sought-after Cabernet Franc from France’s Loire Valley.

Full restaurant review including wine notes

Incidentally, I've heard good things about Cab Franc from the Ohio River Valley, and had been meaning to try one, but just hadn't gotten around to it (and not for lack of wanting mind you - damn my grad student salary).

Ryan, Huber Orchard & Winery in Starlight, Ind., on the Knobs just about Louisville, makes a small amount of a surprisingly good Cab Franc (100% estate grown), and they want $19.99 for the 2005, which isn't an awful deal.

Here's what I wrote about it after a Huber tasting dinner at the (sadly defunct) Rockwall Bistro in Floyds Knobs, Indiana, last year:

Braised lamb - inch-thick rib chop, on the bone - was long-braised, served with roasted shallots and red-skin potatoes on a plate decorated with thick, sweet dots of 10-year-old balsamic vinegar. It married well with Huber’s Cabernet Franc, an Indiana-grown red European-style grape variety. The wine is relatively light in color with peppery and “herbaceous” aromas over fresh red-berry fruit, dry and tart, not unlike a Chinon or other sought-after Cabernet Franc from France’s Loire Valley.

Full restaurant review including wine notes

Huber's Cab Franc recently became available at a shop here in Bloomington - at some point, I am going to try it.

The list of recovered Spanish varieties is now very long and pretty fascinating, from marmajuelo to albarín, but I'll stick to two very good red ones I grow myself: bobal and garnacha tintorera (yes, that's alicante bouschet – but it's still pretty offbeat.)

[David M. Bueker]

I like Alicante very much.

Looks like we can all have fun on Wine Focus this coming month! Off-beat whites!

I'm a little late to the party but one more vote for Vignoles and a thank you to Joe Moryl who pointed me in this direction many moons ago..
Jenise..I have been enjoying the last 2 vintages of the Arneis from Seghesio, in Sonoma..First discovered Arneis via Ceretto's version

Looks like one man's offbeat grape is another man's favorite..I wd vote for Falanghina ..very tasty white, lots of minerality....and besides, Robin called it offbeat back in 2005..(4/6/2005) good enough for me

My choice would be the red variety de chaunac. It is a hybrid grown in Ontario and it has a unique taste profile. Waupoos winery from Prince Edward County offers it.

All of my oddball offbeat grape varieties have been "discovered" by wine hipdom, so I am left to nurse my scuppernog as the only one they won't touch

[David M. Bueker]

All of my oddball offbeat grape varieties have been "discovered" by wine hipdom, so I am left to nurse my scuppernog as the only one they won't touch

Damned internet wine hipsters!

How offbeat does Ehrenfelser count (hey it is summer and a well made Ehrenfelser tastes great while on a sunny deck)?
For the reds, I have had some yummy Marechal Foch.

Can you say 'spot the Canadian' ?(since these wines are not uncommon here!)

Ruth

Croatina baby!

Stinky, tannic, awesome. Frequently vinified frothy.

Also, I was recently in a town in Tuscany called Montecarlo (there's a Montecarlo DOC) and picked up a bottle of Alicante Bouchet (elsewhere spelled Bouschet).
It was good stuff! Apparently that grape used to be big in California during prohibition. The grapeskin was thick enough that they could send the grapes cross country to NYC where Italian immigrants would make wine at home with it. Apparently hundreds of thousands of bottles of the stuff!

Müller-Thurgau

I had a fantastic bottle of Weingut Schweinhardt 2007 Rivaner Qualitätswein. Very light, dry and flowery. I was surprised that the MT was a major grape in Germany.

I also had a nice Pinot Noir from Germany: Weingut Losen Bockstanz 2007 Pinot Noir Spätburgunder. It was a bit sweet but very light and hints of black cherries.

I think it's time to look at Germany again!

Dave

...picked up a bottle of Alicante Bouchet (elsewhere spelled Bouschet).
It was good stuff! Apparently that grape used to be big in California during prohibition. The grapeskin was thick enough that they could send the grapes cross country to NYC where Italian immigrants would make wine at home with it. Apparently hundreds of thousands of bottles of the stuff!

Italian immigrants STILL make thousands of bottles of wine from Alicante Bouschet grapes. Here in western Canada, the grapes are shipped up to Italian grocery stores by the truckload. They come from Lodi to eager home winemakers. We used to get grapes and make wine ourselves and used the Alicante as a tint.
It is hard to grow grapes when you live at 53 degrees north latitude!



Ruth

Beautiful to hear that Ruth! Glad there are still some good traditions around. Its not just that its cold, with the price of wine these days its way more economical to make your own I'm sure. If you let the grapes sit around long enough you could make Amarone!!

Only just zoomed in here as haven't visited for a while.

Some fantastic off-beat grapes already mentioned especially from Jura, Friuli, Aosta, Valais and Savoie (Mondeuse), but there's a white that's no-one's mentioned from Savoie that I'd put in a vote for - it's their most under-rated white grape - Altesse - used to make Roussette de Savoie (and in some older books the grape is incorrectly named Roussette). And also for reds, I like the crossing that you can find in Geneva, Switzerland - Gamaret.