WTN: 2005 Catherine & Pierre Breton Bourgueil Clos Senechal

I am now extremely sorry that I didn't take notes while we drank an 02 Breton last week, which I was either a Galichets or a Senechal but I didn't take note of which I picked. I can offer this, though, that I liked it better than I expected based on how slick, blue-black and polished I found the 02 Bretons (no experience with other vintages, but reading Rahsaan's notes mine were not atypical), where I prefer the more minerally Baudry and Jouguet styles.

Oswaldo, I suggest that you do some experiments. Tastes differ but, with a young fruity Loire CabFranc without the structure for ageing, I would definitely follow the advice to serve at around 14-15° or initially even cooler because, if your room temperature is 22°, the wine will warm up during the meal.

During the rare heat waves here my cellar can get up to 20° and that is too warm, for me, for any red, so I chill them down to about 17-18° for a Bordeaux (less for some others) and place them in an earthenware cooler to prevent them warming up too much.

Many years ago, probably in the 70s, I recall an article in the Gault Millau magazine, where they tested a number of reds at three different temperatures; 8°, 13° and 18°, I think. The conclusions were quite unconventional but I cannot now remember the detail other than that only one wine, a Bandol, showed equally well at all three temperatures, albeit revealing different facets.

I doubt your theory about growers tastes being deformed by always tasting in their cold cellars because all the good ones drink wine with their meals at home (I have heard "Joly n'aime pas le vin" which may, if true, explain his variable results). However, I do think that in France there is a general preference for younger and firmer wines than in, say, Britain and this may affect preferences for service temperatures. "In wine, the French are infanticides and the English necrophiles."

Very interesting perspective, Tim. Because so different from mine, your practice seems extremely unusual to me, although, of course, I could be the unusual one by always drinking red wine at around 70/72F. I'd be very curious to hear from others about their temperature (cooling or not cooling) practices with red wine.

As if we didn't have enough variables - bottle variation, storage variation, cork variation, shape of glass variation - we have serving temperature variation... When message board members compare notes on their experiences of a given wine, they are comparing wines that, if they didn't already start out different, have become different with time, and are then served in different shapes of glasses and at different temperatures. It's a wonder any of our experiences are worth sharing, so irreproducible do they appear to be!

although, of course, I could be the unusual one by always drinking red wine at around 70/72F.

Interesting topic, Oswaldo.

I don't think that a drinking temperature of 22°C (approx. 72°F) is that unusual even in North Western Europe, from where the "room temperature"/"chambré" wisdom originates. As you probably know this guidance has its origin from normal room temperatures in NW European aristocratic and bourgeois homes in the days before central heating when, except in fairly rare warm spells of weather, dining room temperatures were never above 18° (about 66°F) and were often much less in winter except for those sitting close to the open fire. However, I remember the pre-central heating days in the UK (which was very late adopting it) and many people used to warm their claret and Burgundy quite brutally by the fire, although the practice was deplored by serious wine lovers. It is still the practice in a lot of restaurants in the UK to keep a rack of red wines in the kitchen where the temperature may be close to 30° and the lighting is bright; if I cannot avoid one of these bottles, I ask for an ice bucket but the wine has often suffered somewhat from heat and light damage, which may be aggravated by brutal cooling.

Wine-lovers' wisdom in this part of Europe is still that full bodied red wine is best served between 16° and 18° and you will see this reproduced in the Johnson/Robinson World Atlas of Wine. However I have noticed that Italian books and back labels often recommend 20-22°C. On the other hand, the one Spanish guide I have, La Guia de Oro, recommends 18°C for Rioja and Ribera del Duero.

Obviously I have drunk with enjoyment red wines at up to and slightly over 22° particularly at the end of a bottle on a warm day and sometimes, together with the additional airing, the warmer temperature reveals different facets; IMO the wines which suffer most are those with high alcohol, which the warmth emphasises.

White wines are a different ball-game and here I find them often served too cold.

Having said all this, your description of the Breton and Baudry wines ring bells with me, so the different temperatures cannot be all that decisive.

This topic really deserves a separate thread. I think there have been some in the past.

I checked some publications in Portuguese, presumably directed at local consumption, and everything matches the European recommendations. Reds should be served anywhere from 15 to 18C depending on the weight. So last night I chilled our Saumur-Champigny just a touch and will report on that experience via a separate note.