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WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

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WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Dale Williams » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:04 am

Mark Golodetz organized a Riesling/Champagne (with a few outliers) dinner at my favorite Westchester Chinese place, Central Seafood in Hartsdale. A very nice crew of 15 came together, with assorted Zachonians, multiple Dawsons, mad Croatians, serious cellar designers, and other friends new and old.

Food quality was a little varied this night, but mostly quite good. I loved the head-on shrimp, dumplings, one batch of the jalapeno shrimp, the greens, , chicken, sole with ginger. I liked the lobster, duck, Dungeness crab, rice. The beef and coriander soup was good once seasoning adjusted, and one platter of the shrimp was not as good. But overall quite nice

Many many wines. Rudimentary notes, my apologies for any goofs:

NV Mumm Cramant
As usual, a nice wine. Light yeasty/doughy notes, apple fruit, fresh, good. B+/B

NV Billecart-Salmon rose
This wasn't showing well, fruit seems a bit flat (wine itself was plenty bubbly). short, not awful (to me, at least once thought it was terrible), but not what it should be. B-

(2007 I think) Luneau-Papin "Clos des Allees" Muscadet
Somewhat rounder style of Muscadet, seashells a bit hidden under white fruit. B

2002 Taittinger Brut
Lemon peel, apples, peaches, fun. B/B+

2006 Rosacroce "Midolini" Sauvignon (Colli Orientali del Friuli)
Different and interesting SB, herbs (mint and cilantro), cat pee, and lemony fruit. Good length. B+/B

1996 Pol Roger Cuvee Winston Churchill
No notes here, but I certainly liked it, A-

1999 Godme Brut
I didn't take any notes first time around, just a positive checkmark, but quite a while later this showed very nicely, fresh baked bread with apple butter. B+

A mystery wine went around. My first guess was Gewurztraminer, but then someone suggested a Gewurz/Muscat/other stuff field blend, which seemed plausible. Quite sweet, seems a bit old/tired, short finish. It's the 2007 Penguin Bay Gewurztraminer (Finger Lakes), C/C+

1971 Scharzhofberger Auslese
Still some sweetness, light petrol, orange creamsicle, minerals, honey. Revisited after 2 hours still lively. What a vintage. A-

1988 Max. Grunhauser (von Schubert) Herrenberg Riesling Auslese
Good acidity, spices, lively fruit, strong finish. Young but with lots of complexity. Grunhauser rocks. A-

There was a 1976 Von Simmern Auslese, but I forgot to get vineyard. Very dark color, but alive on palate, some botryris, moderate acidity, good finish. B+

1988 Boch Trittenheimer Apotheke Auslese
Light color, but a tiny bit tired on palate, apples and a little slate. B/B-

2001 Zind Humbrecht "Herrenweg de Turkheim" Gewurztraminer
I love the idea of the indice of sweetness on Olivier's wines, but they don't seem in practive to match reality. This is a 2, and most ZH 2s I've had are pretty sweet, this is as close to bone dry as he gets. Flowers, litchis, a bit boring, B-

1989 Hugel Vendagne Tardive
Showing nicely, just a hint of sugar but basically dry, concentrated, long. A-/B+

1983 Scharzhofberger Auslese
Such a shame. There seemed to be a lovely wine lurking here, orange marmalade and honey, but there was just enough cardboard to convince me it was corked.

To make it worse, a 1983 JJ Prum GKA was even more corked. Ack!

1994 Zind Humbrecht "Clos Windsbuhl" Gewurztraminer
Much richer and more interesting than the '01 Herrenweg. Spatlese level sweetness. Big but not ungainly. I like this (I tend to like ZH Gewurz and PG more than Riesling). B+

1990 Berres Urziger Wurzgarten Beerenauslese
Quite young, good acids. Less sweet than I expect a BA to be, but lovely flavors of apples, pit fruits, and Eastern spices. A-/B+


Fun night, thanks to Mark for organizing, and to all for participating!

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
 
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Salil » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:15 am

Nice notes Dale - sorry I missed it, unfortunately couldn't make it out to Westchester with my academic deadlines this week.

Real shame to hear about those corked '83s. What was the grape on the Hugel VT?
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:21 am

I am presuming the Scharzhofbergers were Egon Muller?

The ZH Herrenweg de Turckheim wines never seem to age all that well IME. I'm not terribly surprised the 2001 had gotten pretty dry and listless.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Dale Williams » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:06 am

Sorry, the Hugel was Riesling, the Scharzhofberger was E. Muller (I've never seen any other, assumed it was a monopole).

I think HdT is clearly not as good a site as Clos Windsbuhl, but prices tend to reflect that. Alas, the only ZH Gewurzs I have left are '98 low end- Wintz. and HdT.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:17 am

There 's a lot of Scharzhofberger producers. Kesselstatt, von Hovel, van Volxem and the chartiy hospital (Vereinigte Hospitien) come to mind right now, but I know there are more. Muller has the "best" parcel, but many others are very, very good.

I still have some '98 ZH Heimbourg Gewurz (both regular and VT) and one lone bottle of the '98 Clos Windsbuhl Gewurz. The VT was a truly special bottle a few months ago.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Dale Williams » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:09 am

David M. Bueker wrote:There 's a lot of Scharzhofberger producers. Kesselstatt, von Hovel, van Volxem and the chartiy hospital (Vereinigte Hospitien) come to mind right now, but I know there are more. Muller has the "best" parcel, but many others are very, very good..


I better doublecheck then. I didn't look that closely (we had 15, and someone went around and poured this). I just saw the big "Scharzhofberger" angled across label, assumed it was Muller as that's all I'd seen before (and it had similar label). I'll check with John.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:37 am

If Scharzhofberger was angled across the label then it was 99% likely Egon Muller. Van Volxem does the angle thing, but the labels could never be confused with the old school Egon Muller labels.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Salil » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:47 am

Would almost certainly be Egon Muller - while Van Volxem has that angled label now, I believe back in those years they were known as 'Jordan & Jordan' (with a very different label - http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3876 ... jordan.jpg ).
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:51 am

Indeed they were Salil. I had nearly forgotten about that.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Rahsaan » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:57 am

Wasn't there a thread on here a while back about a 'comprehensive' tasting of all the Scharzhofberger producers and a site visit to the vineyard. Some sort of organized trip and tasting for journalists?

I did a quick search in the archives but couldn't find it.

Regardless, sounds like some interesting wines. And love the way the 88 Grunhaus is 'Young but..' :D
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:10 pm

Those Grunhaus wines seem essentially ageless. I don't know the provenance of the bottle that was served last night, but in about 2001 there was some '88 Herrenberg Auslese released from the estate that came out almost like new. I still have 2 or 3 bottles of it, and I'm really not sure when it might actually show some age.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Dan Smothergill » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:51 pm

A mystery wine went around. My first guess was Gewurztraminer, but then someone suggested a Gewurz/Muscat/other stuff field blend, which seemed plausible. Quite sweet, seems a bit old/tired, short finish. It's the 2007 Penguin Bay Gewurztraminer (Finger Lakes), C/C+

I've been similarly unimpressed, but the awards it has picked indicate that some think it's pretty good.

Best White Wine & Gold MedalLA Intl, CA 5/08
Gold MedalGolden Nose Comp., NY 5/08
Gold Medal Int'l Eastern, CA 5/08
Gold Medal & Best White Wine Indy Int'l, IN 6/08

Any who like it wish to comment?
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:56 pm

I haven't had it, but I'll comment - do we really need more criter-esque names? Aren't there enough from Australia?
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by JeanF » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:09 pm

Hi Dale,

Very interesting evening it seems!

Your Scharzhofberger could also have been the Hohe Domkirche Trier (it also wrote the words Scharzhofberger across the label ...).
Can't be Jordan & Jordan though: that Estate only started in 1991 ... before that it was called .... Bernd Van Volxem.

Out of curiosity, do you know more about which Berresyou had (there were many Berres active in the Mosel ... like Morey in Chassagne) and who this Boch is? (never heard of the latter).

Thanks!
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:12 pm

I'm not Dale, but the Boch pretty much has to be Heribert Boch.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Dale Williams » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:02 pm

OK, sloppy reporting. It seems the '71Scharzhofberger was Von Volxem, and the '83 Scharzhofberger was Von Hovel GKA. I never saw the label on the latter (I'd recognize von Hovel), and just assumed it was same. And since I erroneously thought Scharzhofberger was a monopole......compound mistake. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Salil » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:12 pm

JeanF wrote:Can't be Jordan & Jordan though: that Estate only started in 1991 ... before that it was called .... Bernd Van Volxem.

My mistake Jean, thank you for your clarification. What is the story behind all the name changes?
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:13 pm

Bought, sold, bought, sold...
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Fredrik L » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:50 pm

JeanF wrote:Can't be Jordan & Jordan though: that Estate only started in 1991 ... before that it was called .... Bernd Van Volxem.


Really? I have bottle of their 1989 Wiltinger Braunfels TBA in my cellar, and it is labelled Jordan und Jordan. Maybe it was still fermenting in the cellar when the new owners entered; it does carry 9,4 ABV.

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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Joe Moryl » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:25 pm

Dan Smothergill wrote:
A mystery wine went around. My first guess was Gewurztraminer, but then someone suggested a Gewurz/Muscat/other stuff field blend, which seemed plausible. Quite sweet, seems a bit old/tired, short finish. It's the 2007 Penguin Bay Gewurztraminer (Finger Lakes), C/C+

I've been similarly unimpressed, but the awards it has picked indicate that some think it's pretty good.

Best White Wine & Gold MedalLA Intl, CA 5/08
Gold MedalGolden Nose Comp., NY 5/08
Gold Medal Int'l Eastern, CA 5/08
Gold Medal & Best White Wine Indy Int'l, IN 6/08

Any who like it wish to comment?


Penguin Bay is part of the Swedish Hill empire, which also includes Goose Watch. While they have some fairly tasty, well made wines, they make a lot of absolute dreck too. Think sweet reds made with hybrids that your elderly aunt might enjoy (not that she shouldn't). They are also what I call 'medal whores', and seem to show up in all sorts of obscure competitions, winning double golds at the Topeka Wine-o-rama in the Peach Spumante category, etc. Just shows why one should be wary of medals.

Dale - if you want to try a respectable FL gewurz you might look to Standing Stone, Red Newt (yes a creature, but more tastefully done - it is not riding a motorcycle with sunglasses on), Lamoreaux Landing or Wiemer.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by Jon Leifer » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:30 pm

another vote for the Lamoreaux and Wiemer gewurtz.., nice, well made wines, reasonably priced
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by JeanF » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:30 am

Here some answers / comments to the points raised above:

- Dale: if the word Van Volxem was written "across the label bottom-left to top right" in hand writing style, then .... it is yet another Van Volxem Estate: Otto Van Volxem. Why simple when it can all be so nicely complicated :)
- Salil: Bernd Van Volxem sold in 1991 (google it and you will find some labels), taken over by Peter Jordan who changed the name. 2000 Roman takes over and restored the "Van Volxem" ... but without any reference to a forename!
- Frederik: Peter Jordan bought also the stock of wines, which included many unsold BA, TBA, etc. from before 1991 (including 1989, 1983, etc.), which I remember tasting at the J&J Estate, even as late as in 1999. I didn't know that he officially released some under his own name (if he had taken over the AP identification of the Bernd Van VOlxem Estate, then he can even put an AP number from 1990 or 1983). But of course, these are really Bernd Van Volxem wines.

Hope this clarifies rather than complicates matters ...
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Re: WTN: Riesling, Champagne, Gewurz & more w/Chinese food

by David M. Bueker » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:04 am

I liked the Wiemer Gewurztraminer when I tried it in situ last November.
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