The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

WTN: Two bottles with Patrick and Remo

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

David from Switzerland

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

580

Joined

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:03 am

WTN: Two bottles with Patrick and Remo

by David from Switzerland » Wed May 27, 2009 6:27 pm

Ridge Monte Bello 2001
Thanks to Patrick. 56% Cabernet Sauvignon, 36% Merlot, 8% Petit Verdot. 14.2% alcohol. Four and a half years ago since I last had this, it is evolving slowly and well – the question is whether one likes the style... Deep purple-ruby, almost opaque at the center, watery at the rim. So sweetly jammy with an artificial acidity spike (Was this acidified? – That is what it tastes like!), and oak-spicy with vanilla, nutmeg and cinnamon top notes that I was not at all surprised both Patrick and Remo mistook this for Shiraz (not surprisingly – I could easily have mistaken it for e.g. Aussie Shiraz or Cabernet myself, and a fairly good one at that). Not too warming with alcohol, but there are certainly wines with more alcohol (and that otherwise come across as lighter on their feet) that integrate it with greater ease. My guess is that even though it does not seem closed, it must be at least partially. Fairly complex fruit but medium length only at this stage. The tannin tastes like milk chocolate especially compared to the monumental but utterly natural-tasting tannin of Chapoutier’s 2003 Greffieux. What a filling wine, not easy to have more than a glass (I find more “elegant” vintages of Monte Bello, such as the 1997, easier to digest) – or so I thought: when it was first served still fractionally chilled (when the decanter had just been brought upstairs), Remo said “I love light wine like this.” He later complained this must be the oakiest wine he has ever tasted. If I owned any (and I do not care to), I would cellar the 2001 Monte Bello for several years more, hoping it will evolve along the lines of the monumental, yet more concentrated and intense, but also firmer 1996 (which I would not care to own either, admittedly for stylistic reasons – I realize this wine has its entourage, and respect that). Rating: 92(+?)

Chapoutier Ermitage Les Greffieux 2003
Fewer than 100 cases made. Opaque purple-black, slight watery-pink rim. Another floral essence beauty, complex with roasted Provençal herbs, violet and lavender, mineral dust, cocoa powder, grilled beef and iron, Crème de Cassis. Hugely tannic yet low in acidity as so many top wines of the vintage. Not quite the power of the Pavillon, nor perhaps the same depth, but the terroir expression strikes me as equally as pretty. Sweeter with airing, with a strong apricot top note, the squeaky-clean bitterness of the tannin integrating perfectly (nothing wrong with the tannin at all, there is just a lot of it, as in many of the top, otherwise low-acid 2003 Northern Rhônes). Not just more concentrated and natural-tasting than Ridge’s 2001 Montebello, this manages to be fuller-bodied, with sound alcohol, yet characteristically lighter on its feet (more a consequence of the improved house style chez Chapoutier than the vintage). Perhaps the most amazing characteristic of the top 2003 Northern Rhônes is their uncanny freshness, so that in direct comparison, Chapoutier’s 2003 Greffieux came across like a sleek yoghurt next to Ridge’s heavy cream cheese like 2001 Montebello. And of course it seemed as if the Chapoutier was completely oak-free every time one returned to it from the Ridge. While not as shut-down as I was afraid it might be, this would profit from more bottle age – Patrick for example would like it better with some of its tannin resolved. Remo compared this to the Ermite 2001 we recently had – he thought that “nobler” (the terroir notes in particular), but the 2003 Greffieux “bigger”. Rating: 93+/94?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
Last edited by David from Switzerland on Wed May 27, 2009 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34384

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: Two bottles with Patrick and Remo

by David M. Bueker » Wed May 27, 2009 6:43 pm

Hi David,

Thanks as usual for your excellent notes. We finally disagree, or perhaps Monte Bello is just more my style of wine (It was earlier today that Dale Williams pegged me for a fan of big, modern style red wines. Perhaps he's right.).

I haven't broached a bottle of the 2001 in about 2 years, and the last time I tasted it was during an extensive vertical of Monte Bello where I was blown away by the quality of the 1985 and other older vintages. The young wines that evening were perceived mostly as masses of fruit and tannin as they came after a long string of more evolved vintages. Young Monte Bello does pack quite a punch in terms of both fruit and oak, yet I am quite confident in its ability to handle both. I've heard rumbles of a bit of a style change (even bigger and oakier), but I put that up to some very young wines (2004, 2005) being opened well before they should even be touched, much less uncorked. Indeed this is one of the small group of wines that I have every confidence in aging, as I have never seen a vintage dry out before resolving to great pleasure. The 1991 and 1992 seem to be doing rather well lately, and the '94-'96 are still rather grumpy in my estimation (again mostly based on that vertical).

Other than some Karl Lawrence that I use for casual drinking Cabernet, the only two California Cabs I cellar are Monte Bello and Montelena.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

David from Switzerland

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

580

Joined

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:03 am

Re: WTN: Two bottles with Patrick and Remo

by David from Switzerland » Wed May 27, 2009 7:29 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Hi David,

Thanks as usual for your excellent notes. We finally disagree, or perhaps Monte Bello is just more my style of wine (It was earlier today that Dale Williams pegged me for a fan of big, modern style red wines. Perhaps he's right.).

[…]


I certainly like Monte Bello better with some age on it (the aforementioned 1996 is still too young for my taste), but apart from the jammy-oaky style, the main problem I have with some of the latest vintages (e.g. 2004 - whoever says those are bigger?) is not stylistic: those tend to be light, and that, given the otherwise unchanged (unless yet more modernistic) house style, is unacceptable (the bigger wines of the past - but I'm reiterating on what you've already said, that it would hardly cross one's mind to drink those young - could at least be relied on to improve in bottle).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34384

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: Two bottles with Patrick and Remo

by David M. Bueker » Wed May 27, 2009 8:31 pm

I'm having a hard time with your characterization of the 2004 and 2005 Monte Bello as light. Perhaps we have a different definition of the word.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

David from Switzerland

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

580

Joined

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:03 am

Re: WTN: Two bottles with Patrick and Remo

by David from Switzerland » Wed May 27, 2009 8:48 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I'm having a hard time with your characterization of the 2004 and 2005 Monte Bello as light. Perhaps we have a different definition of the word.


Maybe, won't say this isn't possible. I know people whose opinion I otherwise respect who'll call any Pinot Noir (especially from Burgundy) light, for example, a notion I couldn't possibly agree with.

When I say "light", I do so alluding to a lack of concentration (possibly also or coupled to a wine's dry extract), not the possibly greater extraction of grape material of lesser concentration, nor superficialities such as body/alcohol, depth of colour (unless directly to do with the actual phenolic content, i.e. tannic backbone) etc.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34384

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: Two bottles with Patrick and Remo

by David M. Bueker » Wed May 27, 2009 9:08 pm

Hmm. You might very well have tempted me to crack open a 375ml of the 2005.

Could I infer from your comments that in your tasting of the '04 and/or '05 there was a certain lack of density in the mid-palate?
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

David from Switzerland

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

580

Joined

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:03 am

Re: WTN: Two bottles with Patrick and Remo

by David from Switzerland » Thu May 28, 2009 4:16 am

David M. Bueker wrote:Hmm. You might very well have tempted me to crack open a 375ml of the 2005.

Could I infer from your comments that in your tasting of the '04 and/or '05 there was a certain lack of density in the mid-palate?


"Like a high-grade Beaujolais in weight and flavour", is what my friend Rainer said on the 2004. I've only tasted Ridge's 2005s in passing at a local wine shop (no notes), and remember finding them only fractionally less disappointing. But remember: I'm neither a fan nor adverse to Ridge wines in general - to me they're just wines among (a virtual plethora of) wines, and I look at every new bottling and vintage with equal curiosity.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, ClaudeBot, SemrushBot and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign